The way I understand CS-Recon-Scout-Fails-Miserably
this blade failed because of poor quality control (heat treatment). ColdSteel sent a replacement.
Its a 5/16inch blade, thats 0.3125inch thick and the edge is 0.060" thick and 43 degrees included (22.5 dps)
That is very thick, it should be able to handle anything.



For some perspective see this comment

and this one

First off, I do not view the old issue K-Bar as a durable or tough. The narrow tang reduced the strength and the metal was not real good. I chipped them, broke them and bent them all of the time, until I found something better.

Some context is necessary. I was in the infantry (82nd Airborne, VERY light infantry) and in Special Forces, spending a great deal of time in the field, from the Arctic to the jungle, mountains and desert. You carried what you could, but what you carried was all that you had. Military missions go beyond the "survive until rescue" type of scenario. If the mission required something to be done, you had to do it with what you carried in on your back. With all of the necessary mission gear, there was little room for other tools, so you carried an entrenching tool and a knife. There were not as many options for knives then, nor were there many options for saws or hatchets/tomahawks. If you did not carry it in, you did not have it. It was normal in SF for the rucksacks to weigh in excess of 120 pounds. My back still hurts.

The tasks that destroyed K-Bars was prying, chopping and digging. Not what you WANT to do with a knife, but if you have nothing else to do it with, that is what you use. I have breached solid wood doors with one (or tried to), pried apart wooden pallets, pried windows and car doors, and dug holes in rocky soil. Again, not your normal survival tasks. However, I will throw it out there, that you never know what you will need to do to survive. Maybe break into a building for shelter. Maybe dig a hole for shelter. Try to build a raft maybe. If your knife breaks, you are not only unable to finish that task, but you have no tool for other, more survivally types of things.

I want a tool that can withstand anything I do to it, short of placing it in a vise and hitting it with a sledge hammer. But if it can withstand that too, all the better. What I ended up carrying for years was the Gerber BMF, and the Cold Steel Recon Tanto. Put them throigh hell, and they never had a problem. Now I have the great and durable field tools I needed when I was in the Army (what I would not give to have had them then).

With entrenching tools (E tools), I had the same type of problem. The new (to me) folding E tools did not last. If you were digging in anything other than sand or soft soil, they would break or the shovel would not stay in place. I carried an old one from the WW II or Korean War era, which did not fold up so small, but was much more durable. Now I like the Cold Steel Special Forces shovel. Digs like a champ, chops well, and I have not broken it, yet!

Sorry, no war stories.

But you can get a Boker Plus VoxKnives Rold D2 Camp Knife for $129...

http://www.knifecenter.com/item/BO02BO27...handles-02bo272

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oMvFTiu8Bs

The supplied sheath isn't very good but you can get a Wolf Winds Leatherworks replacement.

http://wolfwindleatherworks.com/products.aspx?id_idioma=1&id=41

Thank you very much for a very illuminating reply to my query. You have clearly experienced situations that put extreme stress on whatever equipment you can provide and you clearly make the case for legitimate needs for extremely tough blades that can suffer abuse and not break.

Interesting, my current needs are a bit closer to normal. I, too, dig in rocky soil, usually while backpacking or hiking, often at distance from a vehicle, but I am retrieving fossils, and the pace is somewhat more leisurely than what you experienced. I find that I need a fine digging tool (pointing trowel, sharpened) and more and more often, a rough tool, typically used to pry rocks out of the way. Balancing weight and utility, I more and more often pack a small (8" or so) pry bar. And I improvise and adapt a lot,using rocks for hammers etc.

Your comments about e-tools are interesting. I have a WWII style e-tool in my vehicle and I find it very useful at digging out the car from time to time. Love the easily adjustable blade. Also useful for the occasional fossil...

Yeah, aren't even ESEE 4's around $100. Though if was wanting a tough knife for wood processing...

https://www.varusteleka.com/en/product/terava-skrama-bush-knife-carbon-w-leather-sheath/30189

$102 with leather sheath.

Montanero and Hikermor, thumbs up and thanks for a very informative discussion. This has to be one of the better threads in a long while...

To add my 2 cents, I really don't think there's a one-size-fits-all solution when it comes "survival" knives (as much as I've come to dislike that term). What you need to define first is what exactly you're looking for in a knife and what trade-offs you are willing to accept. The dilemma being mainly cutting performance and overall practical utility vs robust design.

I've used Moras and more expensive Scandinavian blades all my life and never experienced one single gross failure. I've only seen one puukko break, and that was clearly a user's fault (hitting the spine of the blade with a rock when batoning through some very hard, knotty wood).

Now I'm sure I could break a Mora if I wanted to. I have made a good number of blades as an amateur knifemaker in my time, by forging or stock removal, doing my own heat treating and experimenting with different designs. But I don't see how a Mora or any comparable scandi blade could fail when used "properly" for the tasks it's been designed to.

Most of my outdoor activities requiring the use of a knife would be best described as "bushcraft". I use my knives primarily as cutting instruments for procesing wood, and to a lesser extent food. I take great care to preserve the edge as far as possible. It has to be sharp to do the kind of work I need to do regularly, so no digging, smashing cinder blocks and the like. I can use my knife to fashion a digging stick if I have to, that will work better than using my knife (and ruin the edge). If I have to smash something, I'll probably use a rock first - or maybe carve a heavy wooden club if I have to.

I guess that is the kind of logic behind bushcraft and for that purpose a relatively compact, razor sharp Mora or some more elaborate equivalent will do an excellent job. And in fact it will do much better than heavy duty "survival" knives simply because of the far superior edge geometry that comes with a thinner blade and a more acute primary grind.

That said, I can absolutely understand that in a particular situation (e.g. military, emergency response etc.) a knife might be used for very different tasks. Hence the need for a "sharpened prybar". I'm sure a CS Recon Tanto would fall neatly into that category. As would any other similar knife with a thick, heavy blade and full-tang design.

The trick is, a "sharpened prybar" type of knife is not going to perform nearly as well as a general purpose cutting tool. In my experience, that severely limits its value in a general outdoor setting. Many people these days seem to think that a good "survival" knife ought to be indestructible. Sure, if you're going to need it for prying doors and punching holes through brick walls. But IMHO something along the lines of a Mora or puukko is going to work much better for more mundane, everyday tasks normally done with a knife.

So when it comes to knives it's very much a matter of their intended function dictating the design. And there is always a compromise of some sort. BTW, the USMC Kabar has been mentioned in an earlier thread. Contrary to what many people believe, the Kabar is not really a "sharpened prybar" by modern standards. It's a traditional utility knife, and very well thought out (and executed) at that. The blade is actually fairly thin for its length and width. It has a relatively acute primary grind, can be sharpened to a very fine edge and keeps it well, which makes it a highly efficient cutting tool when sharpened correctly. It will outcut pretty much any heavy duty modern tactical bowie of comparable blade length due to its blade geometry.

Many modern "sharpened prybars" can take a lot more punishment than a Kabar. They have much thicker blades and full-width tangs heat-treated to a spring temper. The Kabar is a more traditional pattern. It has a relatively slimmer tang left soft deliberately. Functionally speaking, that helps establish a better balance (less steel in the grip) and better harmonic balance (a soft tang, e.g. not spring tempered, transmits less shock the hand when chopping, hence making it more comfortable in use). As an obvious trade-off though the Kabar cannot be expected to stand up to as much abuse as an overbuilt "sharpened prybar".

I have it, here´s my setup with a scandi puukko attached.

Thanks Montanero. Something I never understood and never got a clear reply to on this site.

Don't people recommend sharpening a stick and digging with that?

The Cold Steel knife that Doug recommends on the home page gear guide is the SRK. It's now available in different grades of quality.

qjs

It is better to use a stick, but it only loosens the dirt. When you have to do something, you use what you have.

Digging sticks are a common implement in prehistoric North American cultures -typically a tough, resilient wood rod, with an attached stone weight. It is typically pushed into the ground beside the desired plant (which usually has a buried succulent tuber underground)and then the tuber is levered up and out. On fairly shallow stuff, it works quite well.