Hi,<br><br>I traded an us military camo poncho from a friend in the US, he bought it brand new in the "military shop" as he's a USAF survival instructor.<br><br>Not only I but also the rest of my familly has started to like the poncho as a result of having had a safe dry place when we were supprised by heavy rains while on holiday in France this summer.<br>They all fitted nicely under my "camouflaged" wings and since that moment none of them made remarks anymore about me stuffing the poncho in my small backpack.<br><br>I'm now thinking about getting an poncho liner, but I heard controversal opinions about the official government poncho liner, ranging from bulky to not worth the weight to keep warm.<br><br>I also heard about a non military copy that fits the official poncho but uses Thinsulate to give it more "warmth" and make it lighter/less bulky.<br>Also about zipper to convert the liner to a light sleeping bag etc.<br><br>Any info again about pro's and con's tips and places to get it cheapest are welcome.<br>If anyone wants to trade one against some Traser Glowrings lett me (us) know.<br><br>Best Scouting wishes from Holland,<br><br>Bagheera

The poncho liner, in my opinion, is one of the two greatest pieces of military gear ever invented. The P-38 can opener is the other. I love poncho liners. Haven't tried the civilian copy, but expect that it would be even better, being warmer and easier to pack down small.

Addendum : My best online resource for ponchos and liners is www.MajorSurplusNSurvival.com here in California. They have several nations. Ponchos are wonderull, if nothing else for portability. I've found the liners help keep the poncho draped in wind. In a survival situation nothing else is as versatile for rigging an expedient shelter. Some ponchos have a waist drawstring. I replaced mine with a doubled length of paracord. Its just right for stringing a ridgeline. This is hardly a 5 star hotel, but the poncho detractors have never gone out with nothing. A new,G.I. woodland liner is @ $35 from Major

I completely agree with OldBaldGuy. I do not leave camp without a poncho liner, and it's a good multi-purpose bag-extender for sleeping bags. I have no idea about commercial "copies" with Thinsulite. We have several poncho liners (one for each member of the family). Weight/bulk has never been an issue. One will stuff into a pretty small stuff sack, but that's not how we normally pack one. Either inside the sleeping bag stuff (on top of the bag so it's "first up") if we're on the move, or casually stuffed inside the day pack - often to cushion something or insulate lunch/water in the wintertime. They're more than worth the small weight and volume. I've used poncho liners in equitorial deserts, above the Arctic Circle, and most places in between, and I like them. I am VERY cautious around open fires, as a spark will sizzle a hole right through one, of course.<br><br>P38s... I still carry one and have a few stashed. <sigh> A couple in every case of C-Rations... they usually were taken off with the trash. I threw a lot of them away.<br><br>Let us know if you have difficulty locating a poncho liner.<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Tom Ayers

Have you ever tried one of the "kits" that include a zipper to turn a poncho liner into a rectangular sleeping bag???? <br><br>I have taken a poncho liner and cut it down and added a zipper to make a liner for a mummy bag. Turns a 30 degree bag almost into a zero degree.

Hello Tom,<br><br>Thanks for the advise, I didn't know that the original P38's were such a "cult" item, I traded 5 original ones from a forum friend who didn't throw them away when they used the C-rations, he kept them in their original "anti-rust" ? wrapping. <br>I got 5 and one is already permanently attached to my keychain and it works perfectly, the other 4 are distributed among scout "packs" as "kitchen" utensil.<br><br>Tom, have you ever tried the Thinsulate using commercial copy of the poncho liner? it is said that it's much warmer then the original GI issue one ? I think US Cav. carries them together with an conversion kit with a long zipper so you can make an light sleepingbag or sleepingbag liner with the poncho.<br><br>Best Scouting wishes from Holland,<br><br>Piet (pronounced and meaning the same as your Pete)<br>AKA Bagheera

Piet,<br>Great to see you here.<br>I have been out of touch with you for a while. You are not forgotten<br>I love the Thinsulate version of the poncho liner so much and also, it packs a tad bit smaller than issued ones. I even bought a second one. I already own the issue onese and I think that weight for weight, the Thinsulate versions are warmer. When its hot, I lay the P.liner as a ground sheet in the tent and makes a smooth silky , and cushoned surface to rest on.<br>Hope that helps. Dont know much about the converter kits but Ranger Rick swears by it :-)<br>Warmest wishes,<br>Oliver

Hi Oliver,<br><br>It must get difficult for you to enter your "hobby" room were you keep all your goodies with all the equipment you have ;)<br><br>Oliver, you're not forgotten either but life has been so extremely busy mainly with my regular job taking that much extra hours that I don't have energy to sit behind the PC anymore when I arrive home late.<br><br>We just tested our Digital camera to Windows XP connection and it works great, capturing a picture takes only a click compared to the old serial downloading that took up to 3 minutes a photo.<br>So expect picture to be added to my photopoint site, I have some nice additions to my equipement.<br><br>Speak to you soon, best scouting wishes from Holland,<br><br>Bagheera <br>(Piet which is pronounced as Pete)<br><br>

I have a military poncho liner with a zipper sewn into it. I never leave home with out it. I also had a velco strip sewn in place at the end of the zipper which closes across the zipper to keep it from opening during sleep.<br> It also has a small 12 inch zipper sewn in the center (a head hole) so you could wear a poncho normaly with the liner tied into it.

Piet,<br>Indeed, my store room is actually another bed room and how happy my wife would be if I emptied it.<br>Same sit as you on the work front.<br>I look forward to your pics and tell me is it the XP that makes pic down loads faster or is it the new camera versions with direct download capabilities? Email me please what neat stuff you found and maybe I can gravb some too if spare.<br>Hope info on the poncho liners helped.<br>Warmest wishes,<br>Oliver

Piet,<br><br>Thanks - based on all the testimonials on the Thinsulite versions, I suppose I'll look into them. Meanwhile, we're all happy with the issue liners, although I did have a bit of sticker shock when I saw what they cost now. Even the Clothing Sales price is substantially more than what I paid several years ago.<br><br>Have fun with your Scouting - I sure do!<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Tom Ayers

Hi Oliver,<br><br>I know the feeling, I'm having a room under the roof with my "hobby" gear.<br><br>The Video card in combination with the added Video capture capabilities of Windows XP (or at least a program called Intervideo WinDVR are making the caputure of photo's so easy.<br>I just have the digital video camera attached directly to the PC through an Super VHS connector and I'm able to play the recorded dat tape onto the hard disk in perfect quality or when I love a picture just hit the camera button and voila the immage is captured in perfect quality.<br><br>This sure makes life easier as making a picture of some piece of equipement and capturing it on haqrd disk as a BMP file is just a click of the button.<br>I then put it through Paint Shop Pro and make a jpeg of it and also smaller if I want to.<br><br>Oliver, speak to you soon, Glowrings are about the only items that our scouting group has some arriving very soon and they make dandy keychain, flashlight and equipment markers so you'll see were your gear is in the dark.<br><br>Best Scouting wishes,<br><br>Bagheera

Hi Tom,<br><br>Yep, thinsulate poncho liners seem to be good, but if this shocks you as an American then multiply the price of such an thinsulate poncho liner by 2.5 and then you'll have the price that I have to pay in Guilders. I've seen them for $50 and for that money I can buy a sleepingbag that will keep me warmer and is decent quality.<br>If somebody over here makes $10 net an hour in Dutch money he has a VERY good salary.<br>For a lot of "normal" earning people $50 is at least half a days hard work sometimes even almost a day.<br><br>Perhaps I can get the normal military version in an army surplus store.<br><br>Best Scouting wishes from Holland,<br><br>Bagheera

Last year I was on a campout where I was a bit chilled at night when the tempuratures dropped lower than expected. My Colman bag was rated to 0 degrees F, as I recall, but it didn't seem comfortable when the early October night dropped to 17 degrees F. <br><br>It was my first experience with cold weather. Since the bag was rated to zero, I didn't expect any problems. So I was a bit surprised when I couldn't get comfortable. I was wearing a hat on my head, but the wide openning at the top (not a mummy bag) let cold air in, even when I "folded" the corners under my shoulders. I tossed my coat over me too, but the bottom third of the bag was not covered. I was never in danger, just uncomfortable. <br><br>I wish I had thought of my poncho. I have a large, used French military poncho that I could have rolled around my bag. I would guess that would have made the night more pleasant.<br><br>Live and learn. <br><br><br>

Piet,<br><br>Nah, it's not the cost of ONE that I'm whining about, it's having to buy SIX <grin> - Me, wife, and our 4 kids. For now, I'll stick to the issue liners - but I will take a look at the Thinsulite ones.<br><br>Safe Scouting,<br><br>Tom

Willie,<br><br>Try blocking up the opening around you with whatever is handy - spare clothes, jacket, whatever. In a case like you describe, USUALLY I have had beter luck with a blanket (poncho liner, actually) wadded up and used to "chink the cracks" than by wearing it inside the bag. YMMV, but that's what has worked for me.<br><br>OTOH - a barrel bag in a large size may work out for you.<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Tom

Actually, I bought a pair of surplus balaclavas this summer, one for me and another for my son who has the same bag, for $5 at www.sportsmansguide.com (). They have flaps that extend down the front and back. They should also help solve the problem of my hat falling off! It wasn't cold enough on the last campout to try them out. We have a nother out scheduled in 2 weeks, but family schedule may force us to opt out. Then there's always January, but if it's really cold, the bags will be totally unsuitable.<br><br>The real solution is to get a winter bag.<br>