This has been a fascinating discussion, so thank you all!

I haven't tried using just a bed roll, so I offer no personal experience, BUT.... from what I've seen and heard from friends and You Tube, it does seem possible that it's a practical alternative to modern backpack and sleeping bag.

Here's a video from my friend Karen showing her wool blanket roll - including water bottle, pot, cup, knife, saw, etc.... It's only a minimal kit for a day trip with her grandkids, but it looks like a pretty solid set-up to me. She has hers set up to be carried like a haversack, but I've seen other configurations as well.

Skip to 3:45 in the video to see the content of the roll: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX7ENQhao-o

Dave Canterbury, as you might expect, has used this method as well, and there are a BUNCH of videos on You Tube from him and others demonstrating it.

Wise words. Try it. Learn from it. Keep what you like and ditch what you don't and remember that YMMV.

Now then, that is not a very productive, let alone polite way of having a conversation. I tend to refrain from commenting on gear, methods and techniques that I have no experience with. Maybe you should do the same. Given that you have no experience with a bedroll pack (by your own admission), why not at least give it a good try first before extolling its supposed virtues publicly?



IME a quick way of telling if somebody is an experienced outdoorsman is by the amount of gear strapped to one's belt and pack. The more stuff clipped, tied and otherwise attached to the pack externally, the better the odds that person is a greenhorn (for lack of a better word).

IME again, carrying your stuff securely inside a pack or bag of some kind means there's much less risk of losing or damaging your gear. It allows you to move faster and negotiate difficult terrain more easily. In a military setting, what does a bunch of pots and tools dangling all over the place do for noise discipline?

Anyway, I'm a hiker and outdoorsman, not a Civil War or Red Army reenactor. I'm sure Grant's army had a good reason for using bedrolls back in the day, as did the Red Army with their winter coats 70 years ago - maybe to a large extent because other/better gear was not available in the first place?

I find it curious though that the famed bedroll has all but disappeared from the armed forces in general. Backpacks are issued to the troops in every modern army that I know of. I can't recall the last time I saw someone use a bedroll in the field. Not even as a makeshift bulletproof vest. Maybe it's the quality of wool these days, I guess they just don't make it as resistant to bullets any more?

As for this ultralight stuff - now you've done it, I had to go through my gear and do a quick comparison on my kitchen scale. Metric, just to be a little more "scientific" in our approach.
Swiss army wool blanket (200x140 cm) - 2.2 kg
Ferrino 3-season sleeping bag w/ waterproof carrying bag - 0.6 kg
Sleeping bag liner - 0.1 kg
Yugoslav army canvas backpack - 0.35 kg (very compact and lightweight)
British issue gas mask bag - 0.2 kg
Austrian army 25L assault backpack - 1.3 kg (much sturdier than the Yugo assault pack)

So what does that tell us? Among other things, my sleeping bag weighs about one third of a single wool blanket. I don't have a greatcoat at hand, but the ones I've had a chance to play with must've weighed a lot more than a simple wool blanket. Probably in the range of 4 kg, maybe more (and even more if wet). So much for ultralight camping...

This is not at all to say that the bedroll concept is worthless in my book, just that it's gotten way out of hand ever since guys like Dave Canterbury began advocating the idea again - also making a good buck in the process, because they have a product to sell. Caveat emptor...

I try to keep an open mind when it comes to trying different sorts of gear. I love tradition, but at the same time I'm not buying the idea that "old" equals "good" (or even "superior") all the time. Like it or not, we have many more options available than our ancestors. Which is a good thing.

Heck, I'm sure Alexander the Great and his troops would've loved Goretex boots, 155mm howitzers and radio. In all probability, Christopher Columbus would've killed for a working GPS receiver and a quality compass (hopefully something better than a Chinese knock-off from the dollar store)... Bedrolls and greatcoats have had their day, too. Nowadays though, we have many more options to choose from, some arguably better and more practical.

YMMV (wow, I think I need to put that in my signature!)

Tom_L

Well said. Looking at old ways of doing things can be fun. It can also provide useful ideas on how we might cope, if for some reason we do not have access to our more modern gear. And in some cases, it might even be worthwhile to revive old methods using newer materials.

But as you so well put it: ".....I'm not buying the idea that "old" equals "good" (or even "superior") all the time. Like it or not, we have many more options available than our ancestors. Which is a good thing."

I'm sorry if you felt that way Tom. Perhaps, you should make a discount to my cultural and linguistic difference. I don't see anything offensive in what I have said above, simply directing you to the historic evidence provided in favor of a horseshoe type bedroll rigging versus several versions of a backpack or a shoulder bag you were using as arguments. I don't have experience with bedrolls indeed, but I clearly see the good UL potential here, which is confirmed by the history of men, not by some camping gear advertising agents.

Also, I'm still a strong believer in that our iron grandfathers had much more well forgotten by now wisdom in the ETS department than we, men of wood, could ever learn. I see you have that feeling as well, looking at the obvious excuse: (not)"all the time" So, why the bedroll is not one of them? You cannot imagine it made of a gortex hammock rain fly? Or perhaps I must know that "bedroll" in English means "thick rough wool blanket, weight = 5 kg"? Besides, I'm talking only about skatka/horseshoe method of wearing the bedroll, if that was lost in translation.

Back to your scientific arguments with numbers:


So, what you are trying to convey here mathematically? To me it looks like you are arguing that 0.6+0.1+0.35 < or = 0.6+0.1

Russian winter overcoats and blanket rolls v. modern gear? This is Twilight Zone stuff.

i know the Russian Army would fly their troops to a winter training area where the troops would spend the night in sub zero weather with just great coats and a blanket.i assume they did that to show the troops that it was possible to survive with just personal gear.note i said spend the night and not sleep the night!
this was some years ago i read about that so maybe now they have
modern winter gear and not WW2 left overs.
doing that ourselves might be a ok way to find out if it's possible,back yard first folks!!
by the way can someone tell me how to read all the responses
to the posts on one window by scrolling down the page? right now i have to open each post and i sometimes just skip everything and have my say without knowing what everyone had to say.
i did that in the past but forgot how to.....

The old methods, in my opinion, combined with modern gear, can be a lifesaver when some or all of one's gear is lost in transit. Then one must have an idea how to make do with what's left, salvaged, or found.

That's part of my interest in this subject.

"To equip a pedestrian with shelter, bedding, utensils, food, and other necessities, in a pack so light and small that he can carry it without overstrain, is really a fine art.”
-– Horace Kephart, Camping and Woodcraft, 1917

I started re-reading Horace Kephart's "Camping and Woodcraft" over the holidays. He's someone that modern traditionalist bushcrafters hold in high esteem, and try to mimic. It seems to me that he was an ulta-lighter in his day, placing great importance on balancing weight and functionality in his choice of gear. He basically said that we should look for the lightest, most useful gear we can get, while staying away from crap. He even has a chapter dedicated to the ultralight movement of his day.

I'm not sure where he'd fall in today's range of traditionalist to ultralight backpackers, but I wouldn't expect him to doggedly stick to the exact same gear he used in his glory days, as his tribe of modern day followers do. They have him frozen in time, but I expect that he'd update his choice of gear as technology advanced,and probably have a mix.



Excellent point, wildman. Lost gear or gear that's soaked...