I do not like Goretex (or any other waterproof) bag covers in temperatures a little below freezing. The 0 degree C isotherm will be inside the bag insulation until the temperatures get very low (dpending on the bag and the sleeper's metabolism), so ice just forms in the insulation anyway. <br><br>Although I have not personally used the ECWS bag system, I am pretty confident that the relationships between the inner and outer bags are about the same as they always have been with US Army two-bag systems. I have extensively used both the QM curled-chicken feather bags and the synthetic/QM feather bags in Alaska and in the Pacific NW Rainforest, which may be more like your normal climate.<br><br>They are robust bags and work well. If you are mostly car camping with the scouts, they are fine. IMHO, you will not need the over bag. A single intermediate condition bag should do fine (add your poncho liner inside if you get a little chilly). They are all a bit bulky (and heavy), but they certainly CAN be backpacked, as I and tens of thousands of others can attest.<br><br>These bags will take more abuse than commercial bags (go figure). And after you get used to the zipper on top (seems normal to me), side zip bags seem wierd <grin>.<br><br>My opinion is that they are proportionally heavier if soaked than commercial counterparts - I am assuming because the cotton componets absorb significantly more water than nylon.<br><br>Like I said, they should be super for car camping, and if you do not mind the bulk and weight, they are packable.<br><br>Hope that helps.<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Tom Ayers