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#277382 - 10/30/15 09:35 AM Re: Ted Koppel's "Lights Out" book [Re: barbakane]
Tom_L Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/19/07
Posts: 690
I suppose the vulnerability of the electrical grid varies a lot from country to country (and even at the local level), but I suspect that most vital systems are inherently more robust and less prone to cyber terrorism or sabotage than is sometimes assumed. Similar concerns were raised during the Y2K scare, which turned out to be completely blown out of proportion. Maybe I'm just wary of doomsayers competing for media attention because more often than not, this kind of publicity doesn't do much good at all.

So Iraq supposedly invested in some top engineers. Not sure that was a lot of help once they had US tanks in the streets of Baghdad. Much has been said about the North Koreans hacking into Sony, but I can't really see how that would rate as a major threat to national security. Unpleasant, no doubt. But I suspect that right now at least there are real limits to what can be achieved with cyber attacks alone.

I would be more concerned about the financial sector perhaps. With so much of the economy based on completely abstract numbers and money that only really exists in banking computer systems I'm thinking that would be the easiest target and one more likely to destabilize an entire country.

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#277387 - 10/30/15 06:25 PM Re: Ted Koppel's "Lights Out" book [Re: AKSAR]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Yeah, well, you'd still need to go pick some hot dogs off the wiener tree to roast over the coal fire to make it proper, LOL.

Unfortunate he couldn't have come up with a different name for the book. This one's already been used for another interesting story. Oh well.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#277391 - 10/30/15 10:45 PM Re: Ted Koppel's "Lights Out" book [Re: Tom_L]
Mark_R Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 863
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: Tom_L

I would be more concerned about the financial sector perhaps. With so much of the economy based on completely abstract numbers and money that only really exists in banking computer systems I'm thinking that would be the easiest target and one more likely to destabilize an entire country.


Going after the US finanacial sector would also result in massive collateral damage to the rest of the world. We're second after the EU in terms of GDP and imports and third in exports behind the EU and China. It's a tempting target for somebody with idealism problems with western culture.
_________________________
Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane

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#277393 - 10/30/15 11:54 PM Re: Ted Koppel's "Lights Out" book [Re: barbakane]
CANOEDOGS Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1853
Loc: MINNESOTA
i don't think the grid is in danger and i say that because the US does not put all it's cards on the table when it comes to what we have in place to prevent that.

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#277395 - 10/31/15 02:31 AM Re: Ted Koppel's "Lights Out" book [Re: barbakane]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078

There is now a lot of talk about getting rid of cash money. That should multiple the effects when the electrons stop drifting along a a few centimeters per second.. wink

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#281346 - 07/13/16 11:31 PM Re: Ted Koppel's "Lights Out" book [Re: barbakane]
Mark_R Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 863
Loc: Southern California
FYI, grid attacks / grid down is in the news again. It's a bit of a scare article, but maybe it'll help infrastructure security and maintenance upkeep.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/grid-attack-how-america-could-go-dark/ar-BBuiD8p
_________________________
Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane

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#281350 - 07/14/16 08:07 AM Re: Ted Koppel's "Lights Out" book [Re: Mark_R]
adam2 Offline
Addict

Registered: 05/23/08
Posts: 483
Loc: Somerset UK
I feel that the grid in any developed country is INHERENTLY and UNAVOIDABLY vulnerable.
TPTB may well have better defences against a cyber attack than we know about, but not against a simple physical attack.

Simple observation shows how vulnerable large grid substations are, they are too numerous to effectively guard. The equipment is almost always out in the open to facilitate cooling.
Enclosing the equipment in buildings is not only hugely costly, but adds its own risks including increased fire risk, and storm or earthquake damage to the building.
Anything out in the open is vulnerable to attack with weapons such as hand grenades, high powered rifles and small rockets or missiles of various types, or improvised bombs chucked over the fence. Terrorists have ready access to such items.
Most substations are not manned or guarded and a single armed guard would be ineffective against a group of terrorists.
No amount of armed guarding of the perimeter protects against high powered rifle fire or an anti-tank rocket fired from a rooftop a few hundred feet away.

An attack on a single substation would not be THAT serious, fires, blow ups and storm damage have after all occurred previously without any widespread serious consequences.

An attack on a significant number of substations and on long distance transmission lines could be very serious indeed.

IMHO, the government should subsidise the manufacture of spare transformers, switchgear, high voltage cable, and related equipment in order to facilitate prompt replacement of damaged equipment.
This spare stock could be stored in a military base or other secure facility.

Apart from that, not much can be done IMHO, resources should be concentrated on equipping all important buildings with backup generators, or proven design and regularly tested, together with ample fuel.
The government should also keep a supply of large and medium sized transportable generators, and a very large reserve of diesel fuel for emergency use. Also stored on a military base to protect against theft.

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#281519 - 07/28/16 12:52 AM Re: Ted Koppel's "Lights Out" book [Re: Mark_R]
Teslinhiker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 1419
Loc: Nothern Ontario
Originally Posted By: Mark_R
FYI, grid attacks / grid down is in the news again. It's a bit of a scare article, but maybe it'll help infrastructure security and maintenance upkeep.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/grid-attack-how-america-could-go-dark/ar-BBuiD8p


Grid attack vulnerabilities have been in the news for years so I am not sure why the big jump in interest lately but still makes for interesting reading.
_________________________
Earth and sky, woods and fields, lakes and rivers, the mountain and the sea, are excellent schoolmasters, and teach some of us more than we can ever learn from books.

John Lubbock

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#281525 - 07/28/16 04:46 PM Re: Ted Koppel's "Lights Out" book [Re: barbakane]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: barbakane
Ted koppel has written a book about a cyber attack on the nations electrical grid.

You should read "One Second After" by William R. Forstchen. This is a very good read about the aftermath of our electrical grid going down. It's a story about people surviving, not a technical discussion of things.

There is a sequel titled "One Year After" that came out recently. Well, the paperback version was released "recently", the hardback has been out a little longer. I picked that one up on the day it was released in paperback, but I haven't started reading it yet.

https://www.amazon.com/Second-After-John-Matherson-Novel-ebook/dp/B002LATV16/ref=pd_sim_351_1?ie=UTF8&dpID=51QWrQ01RDL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_OU01__BG0%2C0%2C0%2C0_FMpng_AC_UL160_SR105%2C160_&psc=1&refRID=R5045ABV4HVPEH2NYT5Z

https://www.amazon.com/One-Year-After-Matherson-Novel-ebook/dp/B00TXAE6Z8/ref=pd_sim_351_1?ie=UTF8&dpID=51gUGYJLwRL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_OU01__BG0%2C0%2C0%2C0_FMpng_AC_UL160_SR106%2C160_&psc=1&refRID=VG383ZRXPG2XHKJX16BP

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#281526 - 07/28/16 05:10 PM Re: Ted Koppel's "Lights Out" book [Re: haertig]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
Another book about "after the EMP" is "Ride The Wilderness" by Michael Juge. I picked this one up as an eBook because it is only $1.99. This is the first book in a series. It's not bad, but not great either. In all honesty, I have not continued to read other books in the series. But for only $1.99, the book is entertaining enough.

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