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#277311 - 10/27/15 03:37 AM Re: Medical info card security [Re: Tom_L]
acropolis5 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 06/18/06
Posts: 358
At the expense of being called repetitious , I submit that the best answer to your ( legitimate) concern is a Medic-Alert Foundation bracelet or neck medallion. It carries your name, basic info, e.g. Diabetic, An ID number and a foll free telephone number. You pre submit the medical, personal , doctor, hospital & insurance data with Medic-Alert. Once telephoned and given your ID number, the Foundation gives the caller the submitted info. That is as secure as it gets, without becoming unusable in an emergency. EMS personnel know to look for it. They also supply a wallet card with some additional info. They are a not-for-profit and have been in operation for at least 50 years. Usual disclaimer. Only a satisfied customer

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#277316 - 10/27/15 01:41 PM Re: Medical info card security [Re: Tom_L]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Tom_L
A while ago I discussed this with a paramedic and a nurse working in the ER. Both said that no medical information found on the patient/victim, unless issued officially and clearly belonging to the person in question, would be taken at face value.

That would be total folly. For some things, like blood type, certainly. Do not take that at face value. But I highly doubt anyone with half a brain would ignore medical information on a patient saying "I am severely allergic to drug XYZ" and turn around and give them drug XYZ explaining that away as "Well, the allergy alert info I found on the patient was not official". It would take a special kind of stupid to proceed along those lines.

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#277317 - 10/27/15 02:29 PM Re: Medical info card security [Re: haertig]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2989
Loc: Nacogdoches, Texas
Official or not, if someone has a life-threatening condition listed on a medical ID bracelet, what do you think those in emergency medicine will check?

Example: A person is unresponsive and has "hypoglycemia" on his or her medical ID bracelet. What is one of the first things to be checked?

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
I'm not sure whose twisted idea it was to put hundreds of adolescents in underfunded schools run by people whose dreams were crushed years ago, but I admire the sadism. -- Wednesday Adams, Wednesday

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#277320 - 10/27/15 04:31 PM Re: Medical info card security [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
JeffMc Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/15
Posts: 129
Loc: Northwest Florida
Originally Posted By: Jeanette_Isabelle
... A person is unresponsive and has "hypoglycemia" on his or her medical ID bracelet. What is one of the first things to be checked?


Among the first things to be checked on an unresponsive patient are vital signs, including feeling for pulse rate and quality at either the neck or wrist, and soon thereafter a blood pressure will be taken on the arm, and probably ECG electrodes attached to the exposed chest. So, yes, they are likely to be noticed during initial assessment and early interventions.

Keep in mind, however, that the presence or absence of medical alert information is probably not going to alter the assessment or treatment a patient receives from paramedics or ER staff. For example, all unresponsive patients, not just known diabetics, are going to have their glucose checked as a matter of course. Also, we know that diabetics also have strokes, heart attacks, drug overdoses, etc., so all potential causes for unresponsiveness still must be considered, even if we know the patient is diabetic.

One additional benefit of medical alert jewelry particularly useful for diabetics is that it helps bystanders and police avoid mistaking a hypoglycemic episode for mere drunkenness, as sometimes happens.

I think the left wrist is the best place for medical alert jewelry, for the reason stated in my prior post, followed by a necklace. Personally, I wear a red "dog tag" with my basic ID, medical and ICE contact info on a beaded metal chain around my neck, that I got from a vendor on Amazon.

Wallets usually don't get checked early on, unless law enforcement on scene does it to help identify the patient. It's not an early priority, so it usually waits until after the patient has received assessment and any urgent treatment required, and it also looks bad to be seen rifling through a patients wallet or purse on-scene with an unconscious patient laying there and bystanders around.

Jeff - 30 years paramedic experience

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#277324 - 10/27/15 05:14 PM Re: Medical info card security [Re: JeffMc]
Tom_L Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/19/07
Posts: 690
Originally Posted By: haertig

That would be total folly. For some things, like blood type, certainly. Do not take that at face value. But I highly doubt anyone with half a brain would ignore medical information on a patient saying "I am severely allergic to drug XYZ" and turn around and give them drug XYZ explaining that away as "Well, the allergy alert info I found on the patient was not official". It would take a special kind of stupid to proceed along those lines.


I don't feel competent to comment on that. What seems logical or folly to me is largely irrelevant given that I'm no doctor or paramedic myself. I am pretty sure though that paramedics and ER personnel with many years of experience know what they're doing. I didn't get the impression that a medical info card would be ignored entirely, just that it wouldn't be taken at face value and basically wouldn't make much difference one way or another.

I suppose the pros have a system in place to address all the major points when treating an unresponsive patient. The way Jeff puts it here seems to make a lot of sense, pretty much confirming the above:

Originally Posted By: JeffMc

Keep in mind, however, that the presence or absence of medical alert information is probably not going to alter the assessment or treatment a patient receives from paramedics or ER staff. For example, all unresponsive patients, not just known diabetics, are going to have their glucose checked as a matter of course. Also, we know that diabetics also have strokes, heart attacks, drug overdoses, etc., so all potential causes for unresponsiveness still must be considered, even if we know the patient is diabetic.

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#277331 - 10/28/15 01:02 AM Re: Medical info card security [Re: Tom_L]
UTAlumnus Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 1019
Loc: East Tennessee near Bristol
Quote:
For instance, even if you're wearing a blood type tag the paramedics are required to double check first before giving transfusion. At least that seems to be SOP around here.


Would they use it as a starting point and check that one first?

edit to add: Would they consider Red Cross / Medic donor card official?


Edited by UTAlumnus (10/28/15 01:05 AM)

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#277335 - 10/28/15 01:45 AM Re: Medical info card security [Re: Tom_L]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Tom_L
I am pretty sure though that paramedics and ER personnel with many years of experience know what they're doing.

Yes. I was an ambulance paramedic for many many years (certification is expired now - "I'm too old for that s*%^"). Training officer. I certainly wouldn't ignore "unofficial" medical information found on a patient (I wouldn't go hunting for it either though, I'd just do a quick check of the typical medic alert tag locations). Back in the day, if I ran into an unconscious patient in V-Fib, and after shocking found a medic alert tag mentioning a severe allergy to Lidocaine, I most certainly would radio the ER physician and discuss using Bretylium instead. Failing successful contact, I would have made the choice on my own for Bretylium over Lidocaine, even though Lidocaine is usually first line per protocol. However, as I said, nobody would do something so stupid as starting a blood transfusion based solely on info on a medic alert tag, not that blood transfusions are done in the back of an ambulance in the first place. If you find a Paramedic/ER nurse who would disagree with the above, they're not very good and I certainly wouldn't want them treating me. (Note: Above I was talking about treatment protocols that were the norm back when I was a Paramedic, protocols may have changed since then, but I wouldn't know that now, as I've been away from it since the mid-90's.)

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#277340 - 10/28/15 03:35 AM Re: Medical info card security [Re: UTAlumnus]
JeffMc Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/15
Posts: 129
Loc: Northwest Florida
Originally Posted By: UTAlumnus
Quote:
For instance, even if you're wearing a blood type tag the paramedics are required to double check first before giving transfusion. At least that seems to be SOP around here.


Would they use it as a starting point and check that one first?

edit to add: Would they consider Red Cross / Medic donor card official?


There's really no such thing as your "official" medical record, except perhaps your vaccine record card. The closest thing to "official" would by your military, hospital, or physician's medical records. Any medical alert jewelry, wallet card or patient's copy of their medical record is likely to viewed as just a little bit suspect.

Civilian paramedics in the US don't usually carry blood or blood products aboard their ambulances, not that I know about. Other IV fluids and blood substitutes don't have to be matched to the donor and don't cause the same adverse reactions that blood products may cause. My understanding is that in hospital ER's they re-check and confirm your blood compatibility, even if your blood type info is already in their own records.

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#277352 - 10/28/15 08:06 PM Re: Medical info card security [Re: UTAlumnus]
Tom_L Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/19/07
Posts: 690
Originally Posted By: UTAlumnus
edit to add: Would they consider Red Cross / Medic donor card official?


The way I understand it, yes. But I don't think any action would be taken upon something written in a donor card alone. For instance, I have been a blood donor for many years now. I know my blood type (obviously), it's marked very clearly on my card and in my medical record. Still, every single time I give blood it's tested for type first. Which does seem a bit over the top perhaps but I'm sure there's a good reason for that.

Around here, it is possible to request an approved medical alert tag or bracelet to be worn on your person if you have a condition that puts you at particular risk, like diabetes or epilepsy. Not sure how things are in your neck of the woods, but you could always ask your physician.

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#277357 - 10/28/15 08:35 PM Re: Medical info card security [Re: Tom_L]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Years ago, we did our blood types in class - an absurdly simple and quick test. As I understand it, giving a patient the wrong blood type can be fatal, although some of us are universal recipients. Anyone know for sure?
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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