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#277285 - 10/26/15 03:58 AM Medical info card security
Bingley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1585
I've been carrying a medical info card containing everything that people may know about me should they find me unconscious and needing a doctor -- my name, address, birth date, insurance info, primary care physician info, emergency contact, prescription meds, med allergies, major health conditions, etc. Now, after carrying this car with me for years, it suddenly dawned on me, what if my wallet gets stolen? Wouldn't this card be a treasure trove for anyone looking to defraud me or steal my identity?

If you carry such a medical info card, how do you make it secure?

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#277286 - 10/26/15 11:48 AM Re: Medical info card security [Re: Bingley]
bws48 Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/18/07
Posts: 831
Loc: Anne Arundel County, Maryland
I am in the same situation, but am not too concerned.

I don't put my social security account number on the card, nor any banking information. I don't think much of the information on it is particularly useful to a thief. The credit cards and money is more useful to them. Medical conditions, drugs, who to call and medical insurance info only on the card; hard for them to turn that info into cash, I think.

And, I almost hate to say it, but the risk to my health and life of being without that information being available is worse than any potential financial loss or identity theft.

Note, I also wear a med-alert pendant engraved with the most critical med info.
_________________________
"Better is the enemy of good enough."

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#277287 - 10/26/15 02:23 PM Re: Medical info card security [Re: Bingley]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3863
Loc: USA
If the information on your driver's license or state ID is compromised, that would be a huge help to any identity thieves. A medical insurance card being compromised along with it would help someone commit medical identity theft (where medical services are obtained fraudulently with another's information). Both of those cards are carried in my wallet. It's not clear to me what other information on your medical information card would be of significant use to someone bent on committing fraud.

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#277289 - 10/26/15 04:04 PM Re: Medical info card security [Re: Bingley]
JeffMc Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/15
Posts: 129
Loc: Northwest Florida
There are commercial vendors that supply wallet cards and wearable medical alert devices that display just your primary medical condition, like "Diabetic," or whatever else you'd like, including I suppose nothing, along with your unique patient identifier and a telephone number and/or website that can be contacted for additional information. That's pretty secure. A flash drive with your medical information on it can also be useful, but probably not as useful in the early part of a medical emergency.

The best place to wear a medical alert device is on the left wrist, IMHO, primarily because most American ambulance designs usually cause the medic to work on a patient from the patient's left side, and an ID is therefore more likely to be spotted while taking a BP, starting an IV, etc.

If you don't want to deal with a commercial vendor, I don't think it would be too hard to set up a reasonably secure, password protected website with your medical information on it, and to print up your own medical alert card with whatever you want on it, including your website password. Then, if your wallet is lost or stolen, you could just lock out your website. Alternately, you could just give the password to those listed on your wallet card as emergency contacts.

My DMAT team created accountability tags that allowed members to print out their medical information confidentially, and include it inside wallet card sized ID card/slipcover, which was then laminated closed and sealed. In an emergency, the card could be cut open along the edge and the medical information slip removed.


Edited by JeffMc (10/26/15 04:14 PM)

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#277290 - 10/26/15 04:24 PM Re: Medical info card security [Re: chaosmagnet]
bws48 Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/18/07
Posts: 831
Loc: Anne Arundel County, Maryland
Originally Posted By: chaosmagnet
. . . A medical insurance card being compromised along with it would help someone commit medical identity theft (where medical services are obtained fraudulently with another's information). . . .


The past year or so I have noticed that when I go for lab tests, x-rays etc., the check-in procedure requires a photo id (i.e. drivers licence or state issue ID card) and the insurance card, both of which are scanned into the computer. This may be just a local procedure, but I think that it would cut down on this type of fraud.
_________________________
"Better is the enemy of good enough."

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#277291 - 10/26/15 04:58 PM Re: Medical info card security [Re: bws48]
JeffMc Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/15
Posts: 129
Loc: Northwest Florida
Personally, my larger concern is what the insurance companies, and potentially the government, employers and other other corporations in the information aggregation business, might do with all my personal information that they may have access to, lawfully or otherwise. The Chinese already presumably have accessed every detail contained in my security clearance records. But this veers dangerously close to an unsuitable for this forum political topic.

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#277293 - 10/26/15 05:33 PM Re: Medical info card security [Re: bws48]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3863
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: bws48
The past year or so I have noticed that when I go for lab tests, x-rays etc., the check-in procedure requires a photo id (i.e. drivers licence or state issue ID card) and the insurance card, both of which are scanned into the computer. This may be just a local procedure, but I think that it would cut down on this type of fraud.


This is common practice in the USA and, as you surmise, is designed (at least in large part) to defend against medical identity theft.

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#277295 - 10/26/15 06:44 PM Re: Medical info card security [Re: bws48]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: bws48
The past year or so I have noticed that when I go for lab tests, x-rays etc., the check-in procedure requires a photo id (i.e. drivers licence or state issue ID card) and the insurance card, both of which are scanned into the computer. This may be just a local procedure, but I think that it would cut down on this type of fraud.

But it would never work to prevent voter fraud. confused

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#277297 - 10/26/15 06:51 PM Re: Medical info card security [Re: Bingley]
TeacherRO Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
the only useful ting on there is your DOB. Otherwise its great to share

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#277299 - 10/26/15 08:36 PM Re: Medical info card security [Re: Bingley]
Tom_L Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/19/07
Posts: 690
I wonder if carrying a medical info card on one's person really helps all that much. A while ago I discussed this with a paramedic and a nurse working in the ER. Both said that no medical information found on the patient/victim, unless issued officially and clearly belonging to the person in question, would be taken at face value.

For instance, even if you're wearing a blood type tag the paramedics are required to double check first before giving transfusion. At least that seems to be SOP around here. The only exception being service personnel on duty carrying official tags or info cards, or civilians with a serious condition (such as diabetes or epilepsy), again carrying officially issued armbands and/or tags.

Apparently, there have been instances when people were wearing cards with information that was either incorrect or pertaining to a different person. Hence posing a serious liability (not to mention a potential lawsuit these days).

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#277311 - 10/27/15 03:37 AM Re: Medical info card security [Re: Tom_L]
acropolis5 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 06/18/06
Posts: 358
At the expense of being called repetitious , I submit that the best answer to your ( legitimate) concern is a Medic-Alert Foundation bracelet or neck medallion. It carries your name, basic info, e.g. Diabetic, An ID number and a foll free telephone number. You pre submit the medical, personal , doctor, hospital & insurance data with Medic-Alert. Once telephoned and given your ID number, the Foundation gives the caller the submitted info. That is as secure as it gets, without becoming unusable in an emergency. EMS personnel know to look for it. They also supply a wallet card with some additional info. They are a not-for-profit and have been in operation for at least 50 years. Usual disclaimer. Only a satisfied customer

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#277316 - 10/27/15 01:41 PM Re: Medical info card security [Re: Tom_L]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Tom_L
A while ago I discussed this with a paramedic and a nurse working in the ER. Both said that no medical information found on the patient/victim, unless issued officially and clearly belonging to the person in question, would be taken at face value.

That would be total folly. For some things, like blood type, certainly. Do not take that at face value. But I highly doubt anyone with half a brain would ignore medical information on a patient saying "I am severely allergic to drug XYZ" and turn around and give them drug XYZ explaining that away as "Well, the allergy alert info I found on the patient was not official". It would take a special kind of stupid to proceed along those lines.

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#277317 - 10/27/15 02:29 PM Re: Medical info card security [Re: haertig]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2989
Loc: Nacogdoches, Texas
Official or not, if someone has a life-threatening condition listed on a medical ID bracelet, what do you think those in emergency medicine will check?

Example: A person is unresponsive and has "hypoglycemia" on his or her medical ID bracelet. What is one of the first things to be checked?

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
I'm not sure whose twisted idea it was to put hundreds of adolescents in underfunded schools run by people whose dreams were crushed years ago, but I admire the sadism. -- Wednesday Adams, Wednesday

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#277320 - 10/27/15 04:31 PM Re: Medical info card security [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
JeffMc Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/15
Posts: 129
Loc: Northwest Florida
Originally Posted By: Jeanette_Isabelle
... A person is unresponsive and has "hypoglycemia" on his or her medical ID bracelet. What is one of the first things to be checked?


Among the first things to be checked on an unresponsive patient are vital signs, including feeling for pulse rate and quality at either the neck or wrist, and soon thereafter a blood pressure will be taken on the arm, and probably ECG electrodes attached to the exposed chest. So, yes, they are likely to be noticed during initial assessment and early interventions.

Keep in mind, however, that the presence or absence of medical alert information is probably not going to alter the assessment or treatment a patient receives from paramedics or ER staff. For example, all unresponsive patients, not just known diabetics, are going to have their glucose checked as a matter of course. Also, we know that diabetics also have strokes, heart attacks, drug overdoses, etc., so all potential causes for unresponsiveness still must be considered, even if we know the patient is diabetic.

One additional benefit of medical alert jewelry particularly useful for diabetics is that it helps bystanders and police avoid mistaking a hypoglycemic episode for mere drunkenness, as sometimes happens.

I think the left wrist is the best place for medical alert jewelry, for the reason stated in my prior post, followed by a necklace. Personally, I wear a red "dog tag" with my basic ID, medical and ICE contact info on a beaded metal chain around my neck, that I got from a vendor on Amazon.

Wallets usually don't get checked early on, unless law enforcement on scene does it to help identify the patient. It's not an early priority, so it usually waits until after the patient has received assessment and any urgent treatment required, and it also looks bad to be seen rifling through a patients wallet or purse on-scene with an unconscious patient laying there and bystanders around.

Jeff - 30 years paramedic experience

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#277324 - 10/27/15 05:14 PM Re: Medical info card security [Re: JeffMc]
Tom_L Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/19/07
Posts: 690
Originally Posted By: haertig

That would be total folly. For some things, like blood type, certainly. Do not take that at face value. But I highly doubt anyone with half a brain would ignore medical information on a patient saying "I am severely allergic to drug XYZ" and turn around and give them drug XYZ explaining that away as "Well, the allergy alert info I found on the patient was not official". It would take a special kind of stupid to proceed along those lines.


I don't feel competent to comment on that. What seems logical or folly to me is largely irrelevant given that I'm no doctor or paramedic myself. I am pretty sure though that paramedics and ER personnel with many years of experience know what they're doing. I didn't get the impression that a medical info card would be ignored entirely, just that it wouldn't be taken at face value and basically wouldn't make much difference one way or another.

I suppose the pros have a system in place to address all the major points when treating an unresponsive patient. The way Jeff puts it here seems to make a lot of sense, pretty much confirming the above:

Originally Posted By: JeffMc

Keep in mind, however, that the presence or absence of medical alert information is probably not going to alter the assessment or treatment a patient receives from paramedics or ER staff. For example, all unresponsive patients, not just known diabetics, are going to have their glucose checked as a matter of course. Also, we know that diabetics also have strokes, heart attacks, drug overdoses, etc., so all potential causes for unresponsiveness still must be considered, even if we know the patient is diabetic.

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#277331 - 10/28/15 01:02 AM Re: Medical info card security [Re: Tom_L]
UTAlumnus Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 1019
Loc: East Tennessee near Bristol
Quote:
For instance, even if you're wearing a blood type tag the paramedics are required to double check first before giving transfusion. At least that seems to be SOP around here.


Would they use it as a starting point and check that one first?

edit to add: Would they consider Red Cross / Medic donor card official?


Edited by UTAlumnus (10/28/15 01:05 AM)

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#277335 - 10/28/15 01:45 AM Re: Medical info card security [Re: Tom_L]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Tom_L
I am pretty sure though that paramedics and ER personnel with many years of experience know what they're doing.

Yes. I was an ambulance paramedic for many many years (certification is expired now - "I'm too old for that s*%^"). Training officer. I certainly wouldn't ignore "unofficial" medical information found on a patient (I wouldn't go hunting for it either though, I'd just do a quick check of the typical medic alert tag locations). Back in the day, if I ran into an unconscious patient in V-Fib, and after shocking found a medic alert tag mentioning a severe allergy to Lidocaine, I most certainly would radio the ER physician and discuss using Bretylium instead. Failing successful contact, I would have made the choice on my own for Bretylium over Lidocaine, even though Lidocaine is usually first line per protocol. However, as I said, nobody would do something so stupid as starting a blood transfusion based solely on info on a medic alert tag, not that blood transfusions are done in the back of an ambulance in the first place. If you find a Paramedic/ER nurse who would disagree with the above, they're not very good and I certainly wouldn't want them treating me. (Note: Above I was talking about treatment protocols that were the norm back when I was a Paramedic, protocols may have changed since then, but I wouldn't know that now, as I've been away from it since the mid-90's.)

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#277340 - 10/28/15 03:35 AM Re: Medical info card security [Re: UTAlumnus]
JeffMc Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/15
Posts: 129
Loc: Northwest Florida
Originally Posted By: UTAlumnus
Quote:
For instance, even if you're wearing a blood type tag the paramedics are required to double check first before giving transfusion. At least that seems to be SOP around here.


Would they use it as a starting point and check that one first?

edit to add: Would they consider Red Cross / Medic donor card official?


There's really no such thing as your "official" medical record, except perhaps your vaccine record card. The closest thing to "official" would by your military, hospital, or physician's medical records. Any medical alert jewelry, wallet card or patient's copy of their medical record is likely to viewed as just a little bit suspect.

Civilian paramedics in the US don't usually carry blood or blood products aboard their ambulances, not that I know about. Other IV fluids and blood substitutes don't have to be matched to the donor and don't cause the same adverse reactions that blood products may cause. My understanding is that in hospital ER's they re-check and confirm your blood compatibility, even if your blood type info is already in their own records.

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#277352 - 10/28/15 08:06 PM Re: Medical info card security [Re: UTAlumnus]
Tom_L Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/19/07
Posts: 690
Originally Posted By: UTAlumnus
edit to add: Would they consider Red Cross / Medic donor card official?


The way I understand it, yes. But I don't think any action would be taken upon something written in a donor card alone. For instance, I have been a blood donor for many years now. I know my blood type (obviously), it's marked very clearly on my card and in my medical record. Still, every single time I give blood it's tested for type first. Which does seem a bit over the top perhaps but I'm sure there's a good reason for that.

Around here, it is possible to request an approved medical alert tag or bracelet to be worn on your person if you have a condition that puts you at particular risk, like diabetes or epilepsy. Not sure how things are in your neck of the woods, but you could always ask your physician.

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#277357 - 10/28/15 08:35 PM Re: Medical info card security [Re: Tom_L]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Years ago, we did our blood types in class - an absurdly simple and quick test. As I understand it, giving a patient the wrong blood type can be fatal, although some of us are universal recipients. Anyone know for sure?
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#277359 - 10/28/15 09:01 PM Re: Medical info card security [Re: Bingley]
Tom_L Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/19/07
Posts: 690
It gets a little more complicated unfortunately:

"At one time, type O negative blood was considered the universal blood donor type. This implied that anyone — regardless of blood type — could receive type O negative blood without risking a transfusion reaction. However, we now know even type O negative blood may have antibodies that cause serious reactions during a transfusion."

http://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedur...pe/faq-20058229

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#277361 - 10/28/15 10:02 PM Re: Medical info card security [Re: Tom_L]
JeffMc Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/15
Posts: 129
Loc: Northwest Florida
Medical technology is just about at the point where artificial blood substitutes that are easy to store, have a long shelf-life, don't need matching to patients, and perform most or all of the essential functions of real blood are becoming available.

The horrors of war inevitably contribute to advances in medical science. We've been more orless at war for a very long time now, and this has driven remarkable advances in fields like emergency care, telemedicine and prosthetics.

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#277378 - 10/29/15 07:21 PM Re: Medical info card security [Re: Bingley]
Mark_R Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 863
Loc: Southern California
Like the OP, I carry it in my wallet. Emergency contact information (ID is my DL), perscription drugs, etc. But, the information on it is by no means proof of identity. It's just a hand written card, and there's not much that can be done with it. The rest of the cards in my wallet... Yeah, I might freak about those. The increase in risk of the carrying a medical or ICE card is so low compared to the existing risk from the rest of the contents of my wallet, it's just not worrying about.

Now, if it was a life threatening allergy or medical condition, I would be wearing a medical alert bracelet or pendant. I wouldn't risk a medical mistake during the delay between scraping me up and checking my wallet for ID and insurance.


Edited by Mark_R (10/29/15 07:24 PM)
_________________________
Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane

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#277403 - 10/31/15 07:01 PM Re: Medical info card security [Re: Mark_R]
NAro Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/15/01
Posts: 518
Originally Posted By: Mark_R
it was a life threatening allergy or medical condition, I would be wearing a medical alert bracelet or pendant. I wouldn't risk a medical mistake during the delay between scraping me up and checking my wallet for ID and insurance.


I agree. I discussed this with paramedics and with trauma room staff. I'm told:
1)Checking through your wallet usually waits until they have stabilized you...by which time you may have already been administered some meds (which you may react to... but a medic alert bracelet or pendant WOULD probably have already been seen and checked).
2)The ER folks tell me they almost never give blood until THEIR lab has typed/matched... even if the patient has their blood type listed.
3)ICE on your phone is (if at all) checked later in the process
4)USB flashdrives and the like - will NEVER be consulted. Their ER computers are typically locked down for cyber security, and they just aren't going to put your drive in it.
BUT.. this is just FWIW. For me, an emergency is when I run out of Powers Irish Whiskey

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#277416 - 11/01/15 07:31 PM Re: Medical info card security [Re: Bingley]
duckear Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/01/04
Posts: 478
Nothing in your wallet or around your neck/wrist is going to do much, if anything to change the initial care in an ER.

Drug allergies and implant details (heart valves etc) are the most useful.

Blood type is pretty much useless. I can't imagine giving someone type specific blood off of a card in their wallet.

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#277428 - 11/02/15 08:34 PM Re: Medical info card security [Re: Bingley]
Bingley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1585
Thanks! All of this is really helpful! I'm no longer concerned about security.

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