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#275392 - 06/08/15 01:27 PM Re: Lending out tools and not getting them back [Re: quick_joey_small]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3842
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: quick_joey_small

I see 'adam2' includes lockpicking gear in his survival kit. The Black Scout' survival site has lots of this for sale. But I've never understoodd why. What is the purpose of including it?
That is the crime of 'going equipped to steal' in Britain, so not an option. Is it recommended for US surival kits?


In the USA, possession of lockpicks by people who are not licensed locksmiths varies by jurisdiction (see http://toool.us/laws.html). Most places it's legal unless the state can prove intent to commit a crime with them.

One might legitimately include lockpicks in a kit to open a lock where the key is lost or to preserve life. Obviously, if you don't learn and practice, having the picks with you is unlikely to be helpful. Practice and train only on locks you own!

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#275393 - 06/08/15 02:26 PM Re: Lending out tools and not getting them back [Re: ireckon]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
For me, the raw cost of the tool is not the big issue. It's more about the relative value to me. My wire cutter/stipper is a tool I use quite often. I'd rather lend out my circular saw, which I haven't used in about 10 years. The simple wire cutter/stripper is one of those tools that's on my quick rack. When it's not there, it's almost like not having a pair of crappy shoes if I have no other shoes. The crappy shoes are basically worthless to my neighbor, but are high value to me. Him failing to return the tool causes a bigger rift than me failing to lend the tool in the first place. I mean I'll get it over it (lol). I'm just saying this tool is worth a lot more to me than to him, and on top of that is the lack of consideration.

This is why I said "tools", as opposed to gear. To me, a tool is in a higher category of value than gear. For example, a Philips screw driver, simple as it is, is basically irreplacable with something else. In contrast, if I lend you a $500 empty tool rack, I can still get the job done if you don't return it.
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#275394 - 06/08/15 03:58 PM Re: Lending out tools and not getting them back [Re: ireckon]
Dagny Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1918
Loc: Washington, DC

This goes beyond tools but I've had to get in the habit of writing on a wall calendar when I expect to have something returned. And if I haven't gotten it back then I ask for it back.

So often I've forgotten that I've loaned something and whoever I loaned it to has forgotten they borrowed it and it is just sitting around somewhere.

I'm less likely to lend a power tool and won't lend anything with a blade because in my experience others -- including treasured friends -- don't take as good a care of my things as I do.

And I have not been a perfect borrower. I, too, have forgotten that I've borrowed something.

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#275398 - 06/08/15 04:50 PM Re: Lending out tools and not getting them back [Re: ireckon]
TeacherRO Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
I'd get a pink set from the home store; bright pink. use those as your lenders.

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#275404 - 06/09/15 06:11 AM Re: Lending out tools and not getting them back [Re: ireckon]
quick_joey_small Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/13/09
Posts: 574
Loc: UK
Good thinking!
I go for pink in small items; men don't steal pink things.
qjs


> I'd get a pink set from the home store; bright pink. use those > as your lenders.

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#275406 - 06/09/15 07:47 AM Re: Lending out tools and not getting them back [Re: quick_joey_small]
adam2 Offline
Addict

Registered: 05/23/08
Posts: 483
Loc: Somerset UK
Originally Posted By: quick_joey_small

I see 'adam2' includes lockpicking gear in his survival kit. The Black Scout' survival site has lots of this for sale. But I've never understoodd why. What is the purpose of including it?
That is the crime of 'going equipped to steal' in Britain, so not an option. Is it recommended for US surival kits?
----------------


Carrying lock picking equipment, or other burglars tools in the street would indeed be "going equipped to steal" unless one had some VERY good reason.
To possess such equipment, safely stored away with other tools at home is most unlikely to attract any unwelcome attention.
Whilst times are normal I would never use lock picks (except for practice purposes on locks that I own). However I feel it prudent to be prepared for a possible TEOTWAWKI situation when circumstances would be very different. Under conditions of serious emergency actions that would otherwise be a serious crime might be justified.

Definatly not things to lend to neighbours though !

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#275407 - 06/09/15 12:51 PM Re: Lending out tools and not getting them back [Re: ireckon]
LesSnyder Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 1680
Loc: New Port Richey, Fla
occasionally a third party will be a non malicious but unthinking actor... after the first storm of the 04 hurricane season with 9 days without electricity, I added a new third bulk propane cylinder... which was purged, filled and kept in reserve... a year or so later, a fellow teacher and coach borrowed the cylinder for a team cookout... he asked one of the parents to get the cylinder refilled, and what I got back was a rusted "Blue Rhino" exchange cylinder.. it is now my "loaner"

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#275408 - 06/09/15 01:00 PM Re: Lending out tools and not getting them back [Re: adam2]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
In an emergency when I might need entry quickly,I will just bust the lock or door using a sledge or similar general purpose, adaptable tools- quicker and easier....

If you were my neighbor, I wouldn't have to worry about you borrowing tools, since you could just pick the lock and help yourself.

Can't but help thinking there is a dark side to your plans..., bu I am probably just being picky


Edited by hikermor (06/09/15 05:10 PM)
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#275413 - 06/09/15 02:16 PM Re: Lending out tools and not getting them back [Re: LesSnyder]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Originally Posted By: LesSnyder
occasionally a third party will be a non malicious but unthinking actor... after the first storm of the 04 hurricane season with 9 days without electricity, I added a new third bulk propane cylinder... which was purged, filled and kept in reserve... a year or so later, a fellow teacher and coach borrowed the cylinder for a team cookout... he asked one of the parents to get the cylinder refilled, and what I got back was a rusted "Blue Rhino" exchange cylinder.. it is now my "loaner"
Your fellow teacher/coach owes you a new propane cylinder.

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#275418 - 06/10/15 06:27 AM Re: Lending out tools and not getting them back [Re: adam2]
AKSAR Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: adam2

Whilst times are normal I would never use lock picks (except for practice purposes on locks that I own). However I feel it prudent to be prepared for a possible TEOTWAWKI situation when circumstances would be very different. Under conditions of serious emergency actions that would otherwise be a serious crime might be justified.

I will probably get flamed for saying this, but in my opinion carrying lock picks is more about being "Tacti-cool" than for any practical survival value.

As hikermor suggests, in a true TEOTWAWKI scenario, just using an ordinary crow bar to break into a locked space is quicker and less hassle than lock picks. My 12 gauge pump gun with slugs would probably also do the job nicely. Brute force methods also have the advantage that they work on keypad locks or various other high security locks which don't lend themselves to picking.

In non-TEOTWAWKI situation, just find the person with the key to let you in. If they don't want to let you in, you probably don't belong there anyway.


Edited by AKSAR (06/10/15 07:26 AM)
Edit Reason: clarity
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