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#274071 - 02/02/15 03:31 PM NOT equipped to survive
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Rather unusual behavior by a visitor:

Rocky Mountain National Park (CO)
Search In Progress For Man Walking Trail Ridge Road

A search is in progress for a New York man who disappeared while attempting to walk over the Rockies on Trail Ridge Road despite warnings from park rangers.

On Monday, January 26th, park rangers contacted Jay Starr Jr, 34, from Cohoes, New York. Starr had entered Rocky Mountain National Park on foot and said that he was planning to walk westbound over Trail Ridge Road. Rangers advised him against this based on his behavior and his lack of preparedness for winter alpine conditions. Starr was wearing tennis shoes, jeans or tan canvas pants, and a black/blue jacket. He had no hat or gloves and was carrying a plastic grocery bag.

Trail Ridge Road is the highest continuous paved road in the United States, with its highest point reaching 12,183 feet. Over ten miles of the road are above 11,500 feet. The road closed to vehicles for the season on November 4th. The road is not maintained during the winter. Conditions on the road range from bare wind-blown asphalt to deep snow drifts.

On Tuesday afternoon, rangers on skis contacted Starr above Many Parks Curve on Trail Ridge Road. They were concerned for his welfare and were attempting to assist him. Starr fled from the rangers up a dry section of the road, though, and continued to elude rangers until darkness fell.

Beginning early on Wednesday, two teams of rangers attempted to locate Starr again on the road – one team coming from the east side of the park and the other team from the west side. They faced wind gusts of 50 to 60 miles per hour. These high winds and blowing snow hampered their efforts to follow Starr’s footprints. Aerial operations were not possible due to the high winds. The entire road corridor was checked, but Starr was not located.

Yesterday, rangers again attempted to locate Starr in areas around Trail Ridge Road.

Rangers have been assisted over the last two days by a Colorado Parks and Wildlife officer with an all-terrain vehicle equipped with snow tracks. Yesterday’s operations were also aided by an over-snow tracked vehicle and operator from Estes Park Power and Light. The motorized equipment is only being used on Trail Ridge Road.

Park rangers would like to hear from anyone who might have information on Starr’s whereabouts. Please call (970) 586-1204.
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#274072 - 02/02/15 04:00 PM Re: NOT equipped to survive [Re: hikermor]
Herman30 Offline
Addict

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 508
Loc: Finland
Must say I will be VERY surprised if he is found alive. Seems he´s got a snowballs chance in h***l.


EDIT: Googled "Search In Progress For Man Walking Trail Ridge Road" and found this:

http://home.nps.gov/applications/mr/

Quote:
The search for a New York man who disappeared while attempting to walk over the Rockies on Trail Ridge Road last week came to a successful conclusion late last Thursday when rangers found him lying on a rock along the road’s shoulder.

Jay Starr, 34, of Cohoes, New York, was found in poor condition and was initially uncooperative. He was nonetheless provided care and assistance, and, because he’d been exposed to the elements above tree line over several days, was flown by Flight for Life to the Medical Center of the Rockies. As this is a continuing investigation, no further information is currently being released.

On Monday, January 26th, rangers contacted Starr, who had entered the park on foot and said he was planning to walk westbound over Trail Ridge Road. Rangers advised him against this based on his behavior and his lack of preparedness for winter alpine conditions. Starr was wearing tennis shoes, jeans or tan canvas pants, and a black/blue jacket. He had neither hat nor gloves, and was carrying a plastic grocery bag.



Edited by Herman30 (02/02/15 04:04 PM)

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#274073 - 02/02/15 04:08 PM Re: NOT equipped to survive [Re: hikermor]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
The rangers made a valiant attempt to help this idiot, above and beyond the call of duty. Now it's time to sit back and let nature take its course, with natural selection and natural cleansing of the gene pool proceeding as they always do. It's sad, but if this fool is really that good at ignoring advice and intentionally avoiding help and assistance, so be it. At least he's only trying to kill himself, not others. They'll probably find him next spring. It will be easier then.

p.s. - Looks like Herman30 posted at the same time I did. So they found the guy still alive, huh? I can't say I was expecting that outcome.


Edited by haertig (02/02/15 04:09 PM)

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#274075 - 02/02/15 04:50 PM Re: NOT equipped to survive [Re: hikermor]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3240
Loc: Alberta, Canada
The rangers certainly went the distance here. The behaviors exhibited strongly suggest that this gentleman is suffering from mental health difficulties. You can't easily stop an individual from doing something so obviously dangerous, but the duty to assist remains. A fine example of professionalism IMO.

(Aside: YMMV, but I think this forum would be better served if we replaced "gene pool" comments with "There but for the grace of God go I.")

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#274076 - 02/02/15 04:54 PM Re: NOT equipped to survive [Re: dougwalkabout]
Denis Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 631
Loc: Calgary, AB
Originally Posted By: dougwalkabout
The behaviors exhibited strongly suggest that this gentleman is suffering from mental health difficulties.

That was exactly what I was thinking when I read the original post.
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Victory awaits him who has everything in order — luck, people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck. Roald Amundsen

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#274077 - 02/02/15 05:46 PM Re: NOT equipped to survive [Re: haertig]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Originally Posted By: haertig
The rangers made a valiant attempt to help this idiot, above and beyond the call of duty.


Thank you for that comment. Incidents like this are why we have ranger, and other professionals, in parks.

Full disclosure: I am retired NPS (40 year career)and I bleed gray and loden green. It is also why I check the NPS Morning Report regularly for stuff like this.

The victim was amazingly fortunate in this case...
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Geezer in Chief

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#274078 - 02/02/15 06:17 PM Re: NOT equipped to survive [Re: hikermor]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
My thoughts regarding this "victim" have been deleted as it presumed a state of mind that I am not qualified to diagnose. Besides I dislike it when others are presumptuous, so I have self-censored.


Edited by Russ (02/02/15 06:19 PM)

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#274079 - 02/02/15 06:19 PM Re: NOT equipped to survive [Re: hikermor]
gonewiththewind Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1517
Do Park Rangers not have the legal authority to prevent someone like this from proceeding? It would be cheaper and safer to detain him prior to departing than to conduct a search.

I personally would have let him go and NOT searched for him, but that is just me. Many people are only still alive because others are more alert, careful, and helpful.

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#274080 - 02/02/15 07:10 PM Re: NOT equipped to survive [Re: gonewiththewind]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
It depends. It sounds like he spoke to rangers who said "No, don't go there." and later on he went anyway...when no one was around. I am pretty sure that Trail Ridge Road had a gate with "Road Closed" sign. He might eventually get a ticket for"creating a dangerous situation" or some such.

The classic priorities for NPS folks are 1)saving lives, and 2)extinguishing fires.

You wouldn't believe the range of expertise one will encounter in park visitors. Some are unbelievably clueless and others may know more about the subject or locale than you do. Keeps you on your toes
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Geezer in Chief

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#274081 - 02/02/15 08:28 PM Re: NOT equipped to survive [Re: hikermor]
TeacherRO Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
...Not as rare as you might think; people have big plans and little knowledge or prep.

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#274097 - 02/03/15 01:24 AM Re: NOT equipped to survive [Re: hikermor]
Byrd_Huntr Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 01/28/10
Posts: 1174
Loc: MN, Land O' Lakes & Rivers ...
Originally Posted By: hikermor
I bleed gray and loden green.....


I think you should have that looked at. Just sayin'.
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The man got the powr but the byrd got the wyng

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#274103 - 02/03/15 03:12 PM Re: NOT equipped to survive [Re: Byrd_Huntr]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Fortunately, it reverts to red when I donate...
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Geezer in Chief

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#274106 - 02/03/15 04:56 PM Re: NOT equipped to survive [Re: hikermor]
unimogbert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 882
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: hikermor
It depends. It sounds like he spoke to rangers who said "No, don't go there." and later on he went anyway...when no one was around. I am pretty sure that Trail Ridge Road had a gate with "Road Closed" sign. He might eventually get a ticket for"creating a dangerous situation" or some such.

The classic priorities for NPS folks are 1)saving lives, and 2)extinguishing fires.

You wouldn't believe the range of expertise one will encounter in park visitors. Some are unbelievably clueless and others may know more about the subject or locale than you do. Keeps you on your toes


Road Closed sign on TRR doesn't mean that hikers and xc skiers can't use it. In fact, it's probably pretty heavily used as it is a nice, wide, known route to follow.

I've had wonderful interactions with the RMNP Rangers during the many years I backpacked there. Often they expressed jealousy or admiration over the places my buddy and I were going or had gone.

I suspect the visitor did not intend to survive. That's pretty hard to fix.

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#274107 - 02/03/15 05:21 PM Re: NOT equipped to survive [Re: unimogbert]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Years ago my first attempt at winter mountaineering was a trip in RMNP (Longs Peak). We were adequately equipped, and our leader was experienced. No problem with the rangers at all. Same thing later when I and a buddy did the standard route on the East Face of Longs.
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Geezer in Chief

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#274187 - 02/09/15 06:18 PM Re: NOT equipped to survive [Re: hikermor]
BruceZed Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 319
Loc: Canada
Reminds me of the "Gentleman" I once saw in Yellowstone attempting 3 times to "Place" his 2 or 3 year old child on the Back of a Grazing Bull Moose and then Step Back to take the Picture. He was really pissed off that the Bull Moose would kept shacking off his new passenger. He did not know how close he was to getting his young child hurt or killed or himself. After 3 attempts the bull moose simple walked into the lack and swam away.
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Bruce Zawalsky
Chief Instructor
Boreal Wilderness Institute
boreal.net

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#274188 - 02/09/15 08:14 PM Re: NOT equipped to survive [Re: BruceZed]
M_a_x Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 1207
Loc: Germany
IMHO the moose handled the situation fairly well. That child could have been severely injured by just falling from the bull´s back.
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If it isn´t broken, it doesn´t have enough features yet.

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#274189 - 02/09/15 11:28 PM Re: NOT equipped to survive [Re: hikermor]
KenK Offline
"Be Prepared"
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 2210
Loc: NE Wisconsin
Sounds like he isn't rational. As has been said, his fate may already be sealed.

I feel bad for his family and friends.

Hikermor, thanks for your service. I have an M.S. in Animal Ecology but moved over to a more technical field in grad school when many government grants dried up. I always had a secret desire to be a national park ranger - not so much enforcement but more research or service (if there there is such a thing). Too late now as retirement is in sight. Instead I'll just enjoy the outdoors I love so much.

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#274190 - 02/10/15 12:02 AM Re: NOT equipped to survive [Re: KenK]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
My goodness, I thank you. I was actually never officially a park ranger, but was an archaeologist. Actually, many of the folks you see in uniform in a NP are not actually rangers, but may be wild life biologists, geologists, or many other kinds of scientists.

When it hits the fan, your job title means little. You turn off the game on the tube, and go deal with the problem,especially if you have a special skill, aptitude, or training. Keeps one on one's toes.

Actually, you can now distinguish a park ranger (NPS)if that person has a LE commission. They will have a larger badge, and are usually armed. The better ones are also fully informed about the resources of the park and can answer any questions, and will be happy to do so.

Most parks have an able, active volunteer corps. I have been a volunteer at my park (Channel Islands) since I retired, so I am still having fun. Volunteers often do very interesting things, well beyond what visitor would experience.

I am sure your background would be very useful in many, if not most parks. Keeping the critters happy and the ecology shipshape is a major task.
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Geezer in Chief

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#274191 - 02/10/15 12:42 AM Re: NOT equipped to survive [Re: hikermor]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
Sorry folks - I tried a PM, but hikermor's inbox must be full.

@hikermor - Would you recommend the Park Service as a career (since you already experienced that)? My daughter is a recent grad (bachelors degree) in Wildlife and Conservation Biology. She loves the outdoors, and wants to research/teach sustainability. Rocky Mountain would be the closest park, about 50 miles away.

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#274192 - 02/10/15 03:24 AM Re: NOT equipped to survive [Re: haertig]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Here's a good website to get started: http://www.nps.gov/aboutus/jobsforstudents.htm

Let me try and PM you.
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Geezer in Chief

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#274216 - 02/12/15 09:35 PM Re: NOT equipped to survive [Re: hikermor]
nursemike Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 870
Loc: wellington, fl
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Dance like you have never been hurt, work like no one is watching,love like you don't need the money.

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