Have been working on walking 10 miles - both for fitness and to see how long it takes ( and what other factors may come into it - sun, water, route finding, etc.)

That's great! Keep up the good work. Our bodies were made to walk.

I'm at 6 miles in about 1 hour and 45 minutes, once a week. Shorter distances during the rest of the week.

The problem I am having is that I seem to have reached an aerobic plateau; increasing the distance really doesn't have as much effect on my cardio-vascular fitness as I want or (per the Doc) need. It still burns calories (about 100 per mile), but the cardio training effect seems to have reached the point of diminishing returns.

My solution (still in experimental phase) is to do "Nordic Walking." I use 2 poles to push me along (sort of like cross country skiing). It uses more muscles and burns more calories. The net effect is that when I "Nordic Walk" I can only do about half my usual distance, and I end up "huffing and puffing" a lot more along the way.

explore the possibility of adding some running intervals; definitely run this by your doctor first...

Having the confidence to know that you can definitely huff it X number of miles can really be helpful when any number of things go wrong. That confidence goes a long way in reducing the stress level when faced with some unexpected situation far from "civilization".

To be more practical, slowly adding some weight in a backpack could make it more preparedness-related once you've reached your 10 mile goal.

I often do 10-milers on a weekend. I'm not in a hurry so three hours is my usual time. I find the experience very meditative and calming, even if I may be huffing it up a hill.

I was fortunate in one respect after Super Storm Sandy. I had been training for the NYC Marathon,so I was able to put in the mileage around a blacked out Manhattan when I needed to.

I trained for two years though, with the close supervision of a doctor.

One thing I might suggest is to run/walk at a pace that keeps your heart rate at 80% of maximum (as opposed to running for X minute per mile goals). Building aerobic capacity offers the benefit of a lower resting pulse rate. The heart doesn't have to work as hard at rest, enabling you to recover from exertion faster. A great plus in stressful times.

Walking with a heart rate monitor is a good way to ensure you're getting the aerobic training time you need.

It's also helpful for establishing a pace you can do continuously when you are in an uphill and high altitude situation (such as I see when I go hiking).

Carrying more weight in your pack will also raise the aerobic effort and is good training for bug-out scenario.

Keep up the good work. Just don't overdo it too soon. I've been having knee issues and got diagnosed today with Patellofemoral Pain Syndrome (causes a lot of pain in knees and sometimes causes them to lock up and stop working, especially on stairs). But my longest walk was 24 miles last year with a 40 pound rucksack. I've done more 10+ mile rucks than I can count when training up for GORUCK events.

I start PT Monday to see how my knees are going to hold up going forward for doing more events. I was scheduled for one tomorrow night (8-10 hours+, 15-20 miles+) but had to bow out due to doctor's orders.

I normally walk anywhere from 5-8 miles just on my job every day.

What to do in the end, depends on the goal.

- Able to do X in Y time.
- Just cardio-vascular fitness.
- Improve overall muscle strength (which prevents all kinds of pains. Does require other activity's than just walking.)
- etc.

General advice;
- Build up slowly, if you rush you will get injuries.
- Take enough recovery or your fitness will go backwards.
- Eat and drink right.

I hate running so walk uphill instead to get cardio-vascular. Still looking for a hill that is uphill both ways; guess it's called a treadmill.
qjs

I have spent a lot of time on treadmills, and noticed something about them---it seems that you go faster on a treadmill than you can actually do on even flat streets. I noticed that in the gym, I could do 4 MPH for at least a half hour, according to the machine speed setting, but in fact on flat terrain outside, the best I could sustain for the same length of time was about 3.7 MPH. The cardio effort seemed roughly equal to me.

I realize there are dozens of variables, but IMO, take the treadmill numbers with a grain of salt, as, when outdoors, truely, YMMV.

I can also pedal faster on my stationary bike than when on the road - no wind or other real time environmental influences...

Good on you! Building general fitness is a good thing, not only for surviving emergencies, but also for a long and healthy life.

I would suggest also working in some upper body and general strength exercise. Having some upper body muscle can be a good thing for getting out of trouble. When I need mental encouragement, I always think of those photos of the sinking cruise ship, and imagining what it would take to climb up, over, and out of it.

I live in a canyon/ravine here in SOCAL and the walk in any direction is uphill. In one direction it's 20 minutes to the top and then another 10 minutes to the shopping center. Roughly one hour round trip if I don't delay at the shopping center. That 20 minutes uphill gets my heart-rate way up and then another 40 minutes of cruising and cool-down.

Walking distance, even relatively short distances like 3 miles is great, but don't forget swimming. Knowing how to swim and being in good swimming condition lends a lot of confidence to many activities around water.

excellent idea on walking ...

and let me make this suggestion.

BUY a pedometer ... something that counts steps.
I know that at first glance the idea seems somewhat ridiculous. But I use one now - and have found it to be very effective. The REASON it works ... is that pretty soon you find yourself making a daily goal to do a certain number of steps (say 10,000 steps in a day, or 12,000). By the way, for average work days, its not so easy to get to 10,000 steps!!

anyway, the point is that the pedometer gives you an accurate number to work from. Pretty soon, you find yourself getting up off your office chair and walking around - just so you can increase your step count. After that, you start taking the LONG way to every conceivable destination ... just to increase the step count. And basically, you wind up with a whole lifestyle change where you are just doing MUCH more walking!!

cheers,
Pete

I set the treadmill for about 3.5% grade to account for the difference between the treadmill and "outside." The motor running the belt underfoot is equivalent to getting a downhill assist.

What I have learned so far
- prepare for the sun ( hat, sunglasses, sunscreen)
- carry water & food
- get better socks
- jacket/ umbrella

Great idea, Teacher!

Someone once said that it's hard not to be a good mood when you're in the woods, so I regularly hike the local trails for the same purposes - training - but also for good mental health. (It's awesome family time too!) For a couple of years, day hikes were a near daily routine for me, and I've never felt healthier - or more prepared. But the realities of work, raising two busy kids, blah, blah.... shifted my focus and I fell out of that routine. I really need to get back to it! Thanks for the reminder!

I take my day hike/get home bag with me most of the time. I like the added challenge of weight training and the slower pace, but also love the option of sitting down for a brew-up. You could call them mock bug-out hikes, but the truth is that I don't expect to ever have to bug out on foot. If we ever do though, it's nice to know that I can haul my gear all day in off-road and less than ideal conditions, even when I've got the two backpackiddos and their gear as well.

Not mention that actually taking my pack and using my gear along the way is a great way to shake down my gear! The added bonus is confidence and peace of mind!

lessons learned over multiple 6+ mile days: its slow, get good shoes and oh so much water.

It's interesting how the entire attitude toward walking and physical exertion in general differs between the West and developing countries. Like someone said before, our bodies were made to walk, yet us lucky folks living a sedentary lifestyle often struggle with that concept. I am continually amazed by people who'd rather drive to a grocery store just behind the corner than take a quick walk that probably takes less time than getting in and out of the car.

It has been a sobering experience to spend time with people in the less developed regions of the world who can't afford the privilege of a comfy modern life. Ordinary people who routinely walk 5, 10 miles to work every day. In heat, rain, cold, sandstorms, whatever. Frail old ladies carrying huge burdens that would break the back of any fitness buff working out at an air-conditioned gym.

I guess long distance walking is really more about the mental attitude than physical fitness alone. Unless you have some sort of disability you're probably capable of walking much, much farther than you may imagine. The chances are, you just don't know because you've never tried it.

Get in some basic shape to begin with, do some all-around cardio and strength training and 10 miles shouldn't be considered anything more than a casual stroll. Once you get the hang of it, why not try a proper day hike - 8 to 10 hours is perfectly manageable for any reasonably healthy individual. It is a great way to spend time outdoors and helps promote a healthy lifestyle that will reward you in many ways.

"It has been a sobering experience to spend time with people in the less developed regions of the world who can't afford the privilege of a comfy modern life. Ordinary people who routinely walk 5, 10 miles to work every day. In heat, rain, cold, sandstorms, whatever. Frail old ladies carrying huge burdens that would break the back of any fitness buff working out at an air-conditioned gym."

I AGREE with you 100% !!!!
It was a wake-up call for me when I saw how much WALKING people do in Africa. To discover that sick people were walking 10-15 miles just to get to a medical clinic ... it was one of those "life changing" experiences!! Especially when I realized that half the time when the sick people reached the clinic - there wasn't even any medicine for them.

We do tend to act as if "walking" is some kind of burden that is thrust upon us ... in the Western world. My own conclusion, from seeing people in the "underdeveloped countries" was that long-distance walking was the SINGLE BEST thing that they were doing ... to keep their bodies strong ... to eliminate a LOT of problems caused by dietary imbalances ... and to LENGTHEN their lifespans.

HOW ODD that we will pay large sums of money in America ... to buy extraneous fitness equipment (home gyms that we only use occasionally), OR join organizations like Jenny Craig, OR get medical treatments for illnesses caused by over-consumption of food.

All we need to do ... IS WALK!

Pete

I just got an unpleasant wake up call during jury duty. Flat ground cruising does not translate to multiple flights of stairs. The three miles of street or hallway walking did not affect me the way climbing stairs did. I also discovered that I needed new shoes, and a lighter EDC if I'm only carrying on one shoulder.

What type bag are you using for EDC? I use a backpack often on one shoulder but could easily switch to both shoulders.

An old business messenger bag, roughly equivalent to a California Pak Negotiator briefcase, with a memory foam seatbelt pad for the shoulder strap. Normal loadout is about 3 lbs, but with the extra stuff I was carrying (vest, water bottle, and coffee mug), it weighed closer to 6 lbs.

I'm ambivalent about backpack vs. messenger bag. A messenger is easier to wear over a coat and access the contents while wearing it, and is slightly more professional in a meeting. But, it's limited ability to carry more then a few lbs comfortably hamper it for anything other then office use.

For years I have carried a combination briefcase/backpack somewhat like this: http://shop.eaglecreek.com/everyday_bags_view_all/l/329 .

Mine works nicely works in a variety of environments. The packstraps tuck away nicely with just enough room in the pocket for survival rations (chocolate bar).

My work is fairly casual and a backpack is fine. If I needed formal I'd find a suitable backpack in basic black

I think that's the way to go. I'm an engineer in a business casual office. I'm also the only guy left in the office who still carries their own briefcase. Everybody else carries laptop backpacks for personal bags, and a selection of padfolios/portfolios, clip boards, and writing/computation pads for business.

+1 on the fitness; regular walking, stairs and distance

Be careful to listen to your body. I've been pushing mine a little too hard with daily hiking, and flared up a nagging knee injury because I was stubborn - and a little addicted to hiking. Denial can hurt.

From what I have been able to determine, it is not how much you do in a day, but doing something nearly every day. In fact, it appears that the minimum is much less than we may think; that in fact, 30 minutes of "moderate" exercise 5 days a week is what will get us by. So don't train for the Olympics, and as you said, listen to your body.

Check ScotteVest products. I don't carry any bag/pack anymore. Everything I EDCing fits into the SeV vest (or SeV jacket the other time) pockets. The vest distributes the weight evenly over your shoulders, I believe, even better than a backpack. Everything is at hand, unnoticeable to me and to others, and the weight of the "bag" itself is precisely zero. The shoulder bag is plain dangerous as your spine is never straight because of the load's asymmetry. One day I looked in the mirror and noticed that one of my shoulders is higher than another. It took 5 years of special spine exercises to revert that. In the long run that may turn into other, more serious spine problems.

For the stairs - sure thing it's not translating, as there are different muscles working on ascend and especially on descent. Last weekend I've been hiking for 10.6 miles, with the 800 feet gradual climb. The way up felt like nothing at all to me, but descending back to 0 I had to use my hiking stick for every step after just 10 minutes of walking down. At some point I figured that I can walk without any pain turning back first, and looking over the shoulder, but that was not really safe on that trail. So, I had to invent a special long stride step involving the stick to speed up the descent while minimizing the pain. Fortunately it was a steeper trail (not the same as the ascending one), so it took not too much time and I was back to the parking lot shortly before dark. The GPS tracker showed my ascending trail speed at 3 mph, descending - just 1.2... Only by yesterday's evening I started to descend on the stairs normally without the severe muscle pain.

Descending is much harder on the body than climbing, especially on the leg muscles. There is also an inherent instability and the tendency to lose control, some of the reasons accidents on the descent are very frequent.

Heaven would be attaining a summit or other objective by walking or climbing and then accomplishing the descent with a friendly helicopter.

Well depends on your goal. Enough to have health benefits or well if you plan to do the olympics...

Also visit a fysio or other specialist if you have injuries. It's not always overworked. Very commen injuries/pains are caused by bad technique or not compensating for muscle growth (there are usually multiple muscle compensating each other, with lots of sports, there is a big difference between which side is trained. You will need to do seperate training to compensate for it).



Not just muscle also on the joints. I carry hiking polesif I have to descend longer distances. Strangely enough I don't have issues running down, but do if I'm packed and go slow.

My knees agree completely with your comments about joints!

Runners knees take a pounding. Look at knee geometry and you'll see that locking the knee takes it past center, lots of stress on a joint when you do that and runners do it all the time.

I started doing more leg exercises with weights (leg presses, squats, leg curls) and rather than damaging/tearing down my legs, weight training has made walking and even the occasional run much easier. More muscle is there to absorb the stress rather than putting it onto the knee joint.

Long time back one of the other lifters gave me a clue about how to not cause damage to your knees -- do not allow them to lock out. Don't fully straighten your knees when lifting so the weight stays on the muscle rather than being shifted onto bone. You can do that when walking downhill also; It's a great leg exercise, will strengthen muscle and reduce the damage to your knees.

FWIW

Yep, I learned that again the hard way at Carlsbad caverns a few years ago. By the time I got to the bottom, I could barely stand to walk around the paved path. The cold damp environment didn't help either. It took me a couple days to straighten back out.

I'm a bit of an over exerciser. I recently injured my labrum doing elevated bench flys with two 40lb.s barbells. Stupid and unnecessary at age 66. But I've been an addicted walker for decades. I recently met a 70 year old retired physician. We were introduced by a mutual friend who knew we'd go well together as , "crazy old walkers".

Now I'm a decent walker, but old Doc has me panting. I walk with him from his home on the NJ side of the George Washington Bridge ( some good size hills in that portion), across to Manhattan, descend ~ 350' to the Hudson River coast path. South from 181st to 145th Street, to the top, ~50' ( 5 sets of stairs) to Riverbank Park, once around the Park and back to point of beginning, just about 11 miles.

Our best time is 3 hours flat. But we average between 3:15-3:30hr.s. The ascent/ descent from bridge to river is ~1/8 mi., STEEP, Doc is about 6'2". I'm 5'7" ( early in the morning, before my back compresses). His stride is so long that I have to shorten mine and take about 3 strides to match 2 of his. On a hot day, it's a b****! Nap time and a quart or two of water thereafter . But, all in all, not bad for two " crazy old walkers".

That's some hardcore walking, especially across the GW!

I know that walk & that is a serious one - with some nice views. How often are you doing that?

Doc, as I said, is retired. He does the big walk two to three times a week, weather allowing , with at least a rest day in-between. He doesn't do any other regular exercise routine. I still work full time. Before my recent injury, I was doing a barbell, Pilates, push-up, elliptical (35 min., up/ down hill ,2.75 mi.) gym workout, 1.5 -2 hr.s each, two or three times a week, schedule allowing. If I do the big walk, it is only on a weekend and it substitutes for my second or third workout. I forgot to mention that we do take 1 or 2, ~ 3 min. water/bathroom breaks.

There is a real element of danger in this walk. No, it's not from criminals or cars. It's from some, not all, of the bicyclists. Those ride two abreast or try to pass each other on the narrow, two-way walkway. Ugh! If only the Port Authority would open up the North walkway, at least on weekends and holidays. But, "yes" , on a clear day, the views, both North and South, are spectacular!


For me the toughest part of the walk is the 1/8mi., 350' ascent, especially on a hot day. We don't slow too much on that leg. At the top, I'm panting hard and my hips are screaming. I often take a crooknecked cane or a walking stick . It is good for relieving some of footfall impact ( back problems) and especially on hills and stairs. The forward " plant" of the stick and arm muscles, help in climbing. I'd probably take it slow for 5 min. after the ascent. But Doc is like the Ever Ready Bunny. I feel compelled to reach down down and carry-on. Doc was a surgeon and I do a lot of negotiations and appeallate court argument. So it's two old Type "A"s, competing with and complimenting each other.

Excellent points. I'm not training for the Olympics. Hiking is just a passion not my job. It's my primary way to keep fit. I am training for a big trail hike in a couple of years, but an injury immediately impacts the rest of my life. I already have a hard time unbending from getting down on the floor with my three year old and now getting down there hurts. Not the result I was after. LOL!



GREAT advice! Physiotherapy - at least a professional assessment and then home exercise routine - can make a huge difference in your recovery. In my case, I have a muscular imbalance and I'm messing up my body mechanics to compensate, which is causing further injury. UGH! The biggest aggregator? Too many hills wearing a pack and/or pushing a stroller.

Separate leg and core exercises - and rest - are helping. Taking time off sucks, but it's short-term pain for long-term gain. I hope.



AGREED!!



And for us Northerners: Ice and snow underfoot will also mess up your body mechanics, and put undue stress on your knees. Hiking poles and microspikes can really help.

I hope I'm still going hard like that when I'm 66. Very inspiring!!

Bacpacjac: Thanx for the encouraging compliment. I've always enjoyed your practical survival strategies, especially the urban survival planning . Your wry, self- depricating humor is also a hoot.

Ahhh a gym rat. I highly recommend the book Practical Programming which is of value to anyone from a professional athlete to us 60's-70's- 80's types. It is a no BS book - compound lifts for overall body strength as the basis for everything. Find it on amazon and read the reviews.

http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Programm...4471&sr=1-2

I am using a modified Texas Method program. The book actually convinced me to go back to doing back squats. You can find the author's website here - startingstrength.com. I am an ex-rugby player. My son is a scholarship college track thrower - javelin and shotput - and he uses material from the book. His training goals are different from mine - I just want to be able to get off the toilet without assistance when I'm 80 - in 16 years. If you are doing 1 - 2 hour gym workouts several times a week these programs are right in your wheelhouse. Do you use any online websites to track your workouts?

Ahhh. Thanks Acropolis. That is so kind of you to say.

Kudos goes to everyone here at ETS, because I was a total mess when I started lurking here, trying to figure out how to "get prepared". I could easily have slipped over the edge into crazy mama survivalist were it not for the wise minds around this group. I've learned so much from this group, not the least of which has been to try to keep it realistic. Thanks everyone!!

Speaking of realism and long walks. My son and I were at the Y the other night and he asked me to run the track with him. I passed because of my knee and the fact that I am not a runner. He did six miles. Easy. Refused to stretch afterwards and had very little pain the next day. Now I really feel old. LOL!

"Speaking of realism and long walks. My son and I were at the Y the other night and he asked me to run the track with him. I passed because of my knee and the fact that I am not a runner. He did six miles. Easy. Refused to stretch afterwards and had very little pain the next day. Now I really feel old. LOL!"


Yes, I can remember what those days were like, but my knees tell me things are different now. At least I can still bicycle easily...Tell your son to keep it up and enjoy running to the utmost.

"Youth is such a wonderful thing. What shame to waste it on the young."

Yeah, knees.

This is why my nephew got me into Nordic Walking (with the Nordic walking poles) about 2 years ago. No more impact than regular walking, but the aerobic & caloric impact is 50% or more than simple walking at the same speed & distance. It really has made a big and positive difference for me. I would recommend it for anyone who is walking with knees. . .

There are many ways to stay in shape -- some better than others, some more convenient. Lately I find myself walking to the gym (another gym rat here) which for some my age would be a work-out all by itself. Once at the gym I hit the weights either legs or upper body. Walking to the gym to work legs may seem redundant, but walking and lifting (heavy) are way different. Squats (mentioned above) are part of leg day but it is a full body exercise. Proper form is key when weight lifting -- primarily because bad form leads to injuries. Keep the weight down until you master the correct form.
(For those who need to train their heart, when I get to the heavier sets, my heart-rate will go above my theoretical max (220-"your age"). Put another way, my chronological age is more than a couple years older than physiological. I'd bet that many in this forum are the same; if you stay in shape some of those theoretical numbers are meaningless.) Back to leg day -- the walk home is in some ways harder even though it's mostly downhill.
CoQ10 anyone? Yeah, daily LOL

On other days I work upper body, lots of different exercises there, if you pull, don't forget to also push -- meaning, if you do curls to work your biceps, don't forget to also work your triceps. I prefer compound exercises though, Lots of different muscles working together to move weight one direction or the other, the way they work in real life. There's more control in the gym though; it's safer than real life if you watch form.

FWIW, YMMV

Your post is a good reminder for me. I have no trouble maintaining cardiovascular fitness - lots of hiking and cycling, but I tend to slack off on the weights, which are well known to be important to well rounded fitness.

We (at least this guy) are discussing weight training as opposed to competitive weight lifting. Way back I dabbled in both Power Lifting and Olympic Lifting competition and it's very different from weight training -- one repetition per set versus ten of more. Then there was a period in my life where I took the other path and was strictly running, swimming or biking. When I hit the weights again I realized my loss. I could not lift weights that at one time I used as part of my warm-up; I'll never lift at that level again, but part of that is the decades between then and now.

As for squats I cannot overemphasize the part in the quote above which states: IME the muscles along the spine are there to protect the spine. The spine needs to stay more or less upright and should not bend over. You can lift a lot more in the gym than you can in real life simply because it's safer and you can concentrate on form. Keep your head up and your back straight.

The squat is a great exercise but face it, your back is central to the exercise. Done properly with an appropriate amount of weight, it's safe. Improperly and you can wake up the next day with excessive lower back pain and stiffness. (Ibuprofen won't fix it.) Start light, concentrate on form and work up to a level that is still safe. These days I won't lift weights if I can't do at least 10 reps per set. The only muscle I've ever pulled lifting was an Intercostal (it only hurt when I breathed), injured while doing cleans (the first part of the clean and jerk.) The clean itself is another great exercise, but much more dynamic than a squat. One more exercise I no longer engage in...

If you are fortunate to have a gym nearby where serious lifters hang-out they will usually be more than happy to assist and check your form, they've all been there. Funny, I was watching one of the "trainers" at the gym I use and it was like he read a book about Olympic lifting and was giving it a go. Olympic lifting is very dynamic and form is critical to avoid injury. What I saw was a very strong power lifter doing Olympic lifts using brute force rather than good form and technique. He'd have hurt himself if he hadn't been in very good shape. He didn't want any advice on form. No loss.

Squats seem like a good exercise. Are thee any alternatives when you are plagued with arthritic knees?

Not being plagued with arthritic knees I have a limited view on what that means. Squats are essentially standing up from a seated position, only without a chair and with additional weight sitting on your shoulders. Start doing squats with a chair and no weight. Then add some weight and keep the chair as a stop so you don't inadvertently go too deep.

If arthritis is affecting your flexibility -- I don't have the flexibility I once had so when I'm doing squats and move to the seated position, I probably don't go low enough to be legal per competion rules; I don't care, I'm not competing. I take it down to where my knees don't hurt and call it good enough. Some of the younger guys do deep squats with weight and I have to shake my head thinking what their knees will be like in later years. Maybe they need to train for a deep squat but I don't know why.

Squats are full body but at a point there is too much risk and limited gain. There are a lot of muscles engaged and working together when you do a squat. You don't need to go all the way down to get the benefit.

Just my amateur opinion.

Thanks - very helpful.

If you don't have creaking knees, don't acquire them - not recommended.

One way to make squats safer is to use a Smith machine.

Machines can be safer but one of the benefits of free weights is it forces the balance aspect which means different muscle groups working together. Once you eliminate the problem of balance you move from a 3D exercise to a 1D exercise. Two of those dimensions may be near zero, but that's the point; you need to keep them near zero.

When I started doing bench presses again after having used various machines for years, the bar started wobbling -- left/right, toward my legs/head. Machines won't let the bar do that so it's a one dimensional exercise, strictly up/down. Safe, but you lose the finer muscle engagement. There's probably a happy middle and that would be to use both. Use the machine for power with safety and then use free-weights to train those "other" muscles.

I sorta do this, using a machine for leg presses and then free weights for squats. I do lots of weight on the machine, worst case I get stuck at the bottom and am forced to crawl out of the machine when it hits the hard stops. Then I'd start removing plates hoping nobody saw my faux pa fortunately this hasn't happened to me (yet), but I saw it happen a few years ago. Rather than the lifter crawling out we started pulling plates until he could press the remaining weight. No harm done.

Regardless, there is a trade-off when going to a machine.

Well said, absolutely right.

Try a leg press machine. You may find that if you use it 2 -3 times a week, and gradually increase the resistance, you will be able to move on to squatting.