The link to the Ray Mears program on their story from a survival point of view is just 10 posts up.
You'll see no one seemed interested when I posted it originally; though that was the aspect I thought the story was on this web site for.

qjs

The link to the Ray Mears program on their story from a survival point of view is just 10 posts up.
You'll see no one seemed interested when I posted it originally; though that was the aspect I thought the story was on this web site for.

qjs

I beg to differ. At least I was interested.

As result of this thread, I saw Ray Mears' program, the movie as well as read two books on the subject.

Glad you enjoyed it yee. Just when I posted the link originally it got nil comment. Maybe I was late to the table; I hadn't realised everything is on youtube. And eeryone else had already seen it.

qjs

for long-term survival you have got to have the support of the community where you live. that's one reason why people espousing very radical and extreme views are unlikely to succeed over very long time period - they risk alienating their local communities (let alone the folks living in the capital of the country).

Pete

Pete,

Thanks for this insight! For me, it poses an answer to a question that has been bothering me since I found out about the Bielski's. This lead to a wider reading about the rise of Nazism and the Warsaw Ghetto.

Specifically, during the early 30's, there was increased exodus of Jews from Germany. However, Judenrats were formed which largely espoused cooperation with the Nazi's. Even when leaders were executed and new Judenrat leaders were appointed, there was a feeling that things could only get better when the evidence was (in retrospect) clearly in the other direction. Those who attempted escape from the ghettos were suppressed by both the Nazis and the Judenrat leaders.

It would appear that humans are wedded to the status quo and maintaining the approval of peers. It is only in retrospect that the Bielski's were shown to be right and the majority wrong.
In today's terminology, the Bielski's were clearly "terrorists" that need to be caught.

This, however, gives very little guidance for the NEXT time that it happens except for the dictum "survivors survive" and the need for community based preparation.

My town doesn't do too badly. During Hurricane Sandy/Irene and recent power outages, the school (on generator) was opened as a community center complete with entertainment for the kids, internet for the parents, school cafeteria for food/water and showers in the school gym, MRE's available. Short of complete civil disorder like Katrina, we are prepared. The system has been tested three times in recent years and each response was better than the last; there is nothing like the real thing to test preparations.

I suspect that my town is NOT prepared for Fukushima (important since we are between TWO nuclear reactors). Given prevailing winds, I THINK I am downwind of one of them most of the year. I am definitely within the NRC 50 mile evacuation radius of both.
I have told my wife to go North using secondary roads that I don't expect to be too congested but a rendezvous location has yet to be determined. If I am at work, I would have to stay tight since NYC is can not be evacuated.

Hopefully, we will never get tested on complete civil collapse.

The experiences of the Bielskis is informative. But the movie "Defiance" is, ummh, not so. I think I have recommended before (probably in this thread) the documentary video "Partisians of Vilna." "Vilna" now called Vilnius, the capital of the now independent Lithuania, was a major center of Jewish culture and a large part of the city was Jewish before WW2. The Germans captured the city, and created a ghetto. Some chose to run to the forest to survive; some stayed in the Ghetto. People living in a "civilized" city suddenly are faced with stark survival choices.

The documentary traces what happened to both groups, those who stayed and those who ran and fought; the problems they faced and conflicts they had.

IMO, it is about as close an analogy to how we live today as I can find (the Bielskies were a very rural based group), and the choices we might have to make, and problems we might face if all goes wrong.

Hard to find, but I highly recommend it.

Both groups faced stark survival choices. The answer to the question of who was right is only apparent in retrospect as almost all who decided to stay, died. At the time, the recommendations from LOCAL Jewish leaders as well as the CENTRAL government was to stay.

It would appear that only the massively irresponsible ran. They risked their own lives as well as the lives of their families and their community. Some who ran survived.

Only SOME of those who ran and survived wrote about it. I am uncertain as to the actual numbers who tried to run but died in the forest.



In terms of rural/city, even the city folks were not living in major metropolis' like NYC, Paris, LA. Most "cities" were more akin to towns and much more accessible to the rural areas by other-than-motorized transportation.

I have tried to find this documentary without success.

The DVD is available on Amazon (no affiliation)

http://www.amazon.com/Partisans-Vilna-Ro...isians+of+vilna

And a tip of the hat to chaosmagnet who put me on track to find it earlier in this thread.

When I began this thread, I never thought it would generate this much interest. Especially not such well thought out commentary. My admiration to all.

My thanx to all who posted about "Partisans of Vilna" . I just ordered it myself.

I just re-read the thread and a question came to mind. How many of us, especially those with cultural/ ethnic/ religious connections to the Holocaust, consciously or unconsciously , find ourselves making "run away" preps? I'm not talking about disaster preps or a BOB. I'm thinking about keeping cash/ gold /jewels/passport handy. Having a "family assemble" code, e.g. "Alas Babylon". Knowing the route to Canada/Mexico/wherever, not because we ever think we'll have to run, but "just-in-case"? Never quite feeling secure or accepted in the larger society?

These are the feelings and actions that some of the survivor parents & grandparents of my childhood friends felt and acted upon. I'm wondering if it carried through to the next or next two generations? Anyone care to share or comment?