#271754 - 09/23/14 12:32 PM
Man Killed by Black Bear 40 miles from NYC
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Journeyman
Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 82
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Black Bear Kills Rutgers Student During a Hike in New JerseyThis was a shock. A college student was killed, and possibly eaten by a black bear in New Jersey. We have friends that used to live in that area, and they used to tell us the bears were becoming more and more of a problem, losing all fear of humans. In one incident they knew of, a bear had stalked some teenage kids. We have bears on our camp property, and this makes me think seriously that we should all carry at least pepper spray when we go into the woods. I remember a post here a few years ago by a guy who was treed by a very aggressive black bear and saved himself with pepper spray. It also confirms my thought that bears near populated areas need hunting pressure in order to re-instill their fear of humans. David
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#271764 - 09/23/14 03:41 PM
Re: Man Killed by Black Bear 40 miles from NYC
[Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
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Journeyman
Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 82
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Hmmm, 5 fit young male humans behaving like prey animals running away from the bear was probably the problem here. You may be correct. But in the case of a tragedy like this, I try to hold off on blaming the victim at least until his body is cold. David
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#271765 - 09/23/14 03:50 PM
Re: Man Killed by Black Bear 40 miles from NYC
[Re: bigmbogo]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2851
Loc: La-USA
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4 of them only needed to be faster than the 5th one?????
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QMC, USCG (Ret) The best luck is what you make yourself!
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#271766 - 09/23/14 05:10 PM
Re: Man Killed by Black Bear 40 miles from NYC
[Re: bigmbogo]
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Addict
Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 631
Loc: Calgary, AB
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Granted, the article doesn't provide much information, but, from what is provided, it seems possible the bear was being predatory. While the risk of death with black bear interactions is very low, Dr. Herrero's study of fatal attacks found that the bear was acting as a predator in 88% of the fatalities ( Fatal Attacks by American Black Bear on People: 1900–2009). Talking about this predatory behaviour, the study notes: " Potentially predatory approaches are typically silent, and may include stalking or other following, followed by a fast rush leading to contact. We know of incidents where a black bear behaved as if it were considering or carrying out a predatory attack and was deterred by people’s aggressive actions such as shouting, or hitting with rocks, fists, or sticks. Once predatory behavior is initiated it may persist for hours unless it is deterred. After 1 person has been killed by a black bear, the bear may attempt or succeed in killing other nearby people, as demonstrated by the 3 incidents in which 2 or 3 people were killed. Such bears appear to be strongly motivated, as if a switch had been thrown." The study also noted: " ... no one who was killed by a black bear had bear spray. Nor was bear spray available for other party members to deter the attacking bear."
_________________________
Victory awaits him who has everything in order — luck, people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck. Roald Amundsen
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#271772 - 09/23/14 08:49 PM
Re: Man Killed by Black Bear 40 miles from NYC
[Re: bigmbogo]
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Old Hand
Registered: 08/18/07
Posts: 831
Loc: Anne Arundel County, Maryland
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They knew the bear was there and ran.
From the cited story: "They encountered a black bear, which began to follow them, //snip//
The friends told the police they scrambled to get away from the bear, all running in different directions."
I suspect that acting together, they could have scared the bear off by making lots of noise, standing together and throwing things at the bear.
I'm fairly confident that when the bear saw them run and split up, (as a group of deer might) his predatory instincts cut in.
_________________________
"Better is the enemy of good enough."
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#271775 - 09/23/14 10:19 PM
Re: Man Killed by Black Bear 40 miles from NYC
[Re: bws48]
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Geezer
Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
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They knew the bear was there and ran.
From the cited story: "They encountered a black bear, which began to follow them, //snip//
The friends told the police they scrambled to get away from the bear, all running in different directions."
I suspect that acting together, they could have scared the bear off by making lots of noise, standing together and throwing things at the bear.
I'm fairly confident that when the bear saw them run and split up, (as a group of deer might) his predatory instincts cut in. Yep, with canines it's called Prey Drive, it's probably similar with bears. You run, you look much more like something that needs to be chased/run down and possibly killed/eaten (depending on type of carnivore doing the chase). Stand your ground and throw rocks or hit them with pepper spray and you appear much less appealing. FWIW, possibly not much...
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#271788 - 09/24/14 12:12 PM
Re: Man Killed by Black Bear 40 miles from NYC
[Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
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Journeyman
Registered: 11/15/10
Posts: 90
Loc: Maine
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Hmmm, 5 fit young male humans behaving like prey animals running away from the bear was probably the problem here. Exactly...on the rare occasion black bears attack, it is generally predatory. As such, running away is exactly the thing you shouldn't do! What's recommended is to stand your ground and make yourself look as big and scary as possible to convince the bear you are not prey. Probably easier said than done, but may have prevented this man's death especially if the group had stayed together instead of scattering like they apparently did.
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The rhythm is gonna get you...and if it's v-tach or v-fib, the results will be shocking!
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#271801 - 09/24/14 04:53 PM
Re: Man Killed by Black Bear 40 miles from NYC
[Re: bigmbogo]
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Member
Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 154
Loc: Northern Colorado
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There was another death from a bear a week ago in Wyoming, and then another attack occured just a few miles from where I was staying in Dubois. Links: http://www.good4utah.com/story/d/story/u...HNEmKjEgmyYgXvg and http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/22/us-usa-grizzly-wyoming-idUSKCN0HH2R520140922 This is the time of the year bears are really trying to put on weight for the winter, and some have cubs, so situational awareness is a must. Stay in open spaces with a good line of sight and avoid brush or wooded areas. It goes without saying to not have food on your person. Everyone in my group carried bear spray and there were at least two people carrying firearms. Word had it from the locals that bear spray was considered generally more effective, and that firearms were more of a heavy-duty backup. Bears are amazing animals, but we have to remember that without our smarts, they are much higher on the food chain than we are. --M
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#271818 - 09/24/14 09:22 PM
Re: Man Killed by Black Bear 40 miles from NYC
[Re: bigmbogo]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 319
Loc: Canada
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If this Group of 5 had "Stayed Together" this encounter would not have made the news. I have never found a Reliable Encounter with a Group of less than 3 that has had lead to a fatal bear encounter (Either Black or Grizzly), i.e. Travel in a Group of 4 or More and Deaths Caused by a Bears Go to Zero. Even a group of 2 cuts your chances of a deadly encounter down greatly.
Remember that if a group either starts an encounter spread apart or breaks up as in this encounter then the Bear Encounter is 1-on-1.
_________________________
Bruce Zawalsky Chief Instructor Boreal Wilderness Institute boreal.net
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#271822 - 09/24/14 10:35 PM
Re: Man Killed by Black Bear 40 miles from NYC
[Re: BruceZed]
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Veteran
Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 1419
Loc: Nothern Ontario
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If this Group of 5 had "Stayed Together" this encounter would not have made the news. I have never found a Reliable Encounter with a Group of less than 3 that has had lead to a fatal bear encounter (Either Black or Grizzly), i.e. Travel in a Group of 4 or More and Deaths Caused by a Bears Go to Zero. Even a group of 2 cuts your chances of a deadly encounter down greatly.
Remember that if a group either starts an encounter spread apart or breaks up as in this encounter then the Bear Encounter is 1-on-1.
Although this Grizzly Bear attack did not kill anyone, it resulted into 2 serious injuries that could of easily been life ending. It should be noted that this was a group of 7 that was attacked and really does away with the long held believe that a large groups may never be subject to a bear attack.
_________________________
Earth and sky, woods and fields, lakes and rivers, the mountain and the sea, are excellent schoolmasters, and teach some of us more than we can ever learn from books.
John Lubbock
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#271824 - 09/24/14 11:09 PM
Re: Man Killed by Black Bear 40 miles from NYC
[Re: bigmbogo]
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Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3842
Loc: USA
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Summarizing: - Avoid bear encounters by being situationally aware and making noise so that you give non-predatory bears an opportunity to hear you coming.
- Stay together.
- Look big and scary.
- Don't act like food. Food doesn't stand its ground, yell, talk to the bear, or make very loud noises with boomsticks (always be aware of your target and what is beyond).
- Deploy pepper spray if circumstances permit and call for same.
- Deploy firearms if necessary to preserve life.
Is that accurate and complete?
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#271830 - 09/25/14 12:49 AM
Re: Man Killed by Black Bear 40 miles from NYC
[Re: Teslinhiker]
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Veteran
Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
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If this Group of 5 had "Stayed Together" this encounter would not have made the news. I have never found a Reliable Encounter with a Group of less than 3 that has had lead to a fatal bear encounter (Either Black or Grizzly), i.e. Travel in a Group of 4 or More and Deaths Caused by a Bears Go to Zero. Even a group of 2 cuts your chances of a deadly encounter down greatly.
Remember that if a group either starts an encounter spread apart or breaks up as in this encounter then the Bear Encounter is 1-on-1. Although this Grizzly Bear attack did not kill anyone, it resulted into 2 serious injuries that could of easily been life ending. It should be noted that this was a group of 7 that was attacked and really does away with the long held believe that a large groups may never be subject to a bear attack. Actually, the NOLS bear attack probably doesn't disprove the belief that large groups probably won't be attacked. Bruce Zed's last statement is key. A detailed analysis by NOLS after the event indicated that the students were walking up a creek, spread out, in single file. The first student had just rounded a rocky outcrop when he first saw the bear. At the time the bear hit the first student, it likely was not aware that there were more behind him. The bear probably initially only saw one student. See New report details 2011 Alaska grizzly bear attack on outdoors school students (Part 1) , and How could NOLS students have avoided bear attack? (Part 2)
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"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more." -Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz
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#271845 - 09/25/14 03:36 PM
Re: Man Killed by Black Bear 40 miles from NYC
[Re: bigmbogo]
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Veteran
Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1517
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Or cook naked! And then bathe, of course.
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#271849 - 09/25/14 04:17 PM
Re: Man Killed by Black Bear 40 miles from NYC
[Re: gonewiththewind]
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Addict
Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 631
Loc: Calgary, AB
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Or cook naked! And then bathe, of course. That would work! I've always heard the advice to not sleep in or with the clothes you wear but I've never practically figured out how to do that. Plus, barring the bathing option, the smell would still be on your skin and hair too wouldn't it?
_________________________
Victory awaits him who has everything in order — luck, people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck. Roald Amundsen
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#271883 - 09/26/14 05:11 PM
Re: Man Killed by Black Bear 40 miles from NYC
[Re: bigmbogo]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
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Does anyone have an idea of what proportion of black bear attacks are predatory in nature, like this one appears to be? Versus more reactionary or defensive (e.g. to protect cubs or territory).
Could rabies be a factor in this story?
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#271886 - 09/26/14 05:42 PM
Re: Man Killed by Black Bear 40 miles from NYC
[Re: Arney]
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Old Hand
Registered: 08/18/07
Posts: 831
Loc: Anne Arundel County, Maryland
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Could rabies be a factor in this story?
From what I read, I doubt it, but it always remains a remote possibility. Bears get rabies. There have been rabid bear attacks here in Maryland, in Virginia, and (I think) in Pennsylvania. These attacks are very rare. As I understand it, once infected, the rabies kills the bear relatively quickly. In both the Maryland and Virginia attacks, the only means to stop the bear was to use lethal force, i.e. shotguns. I don't know what happened in the Pennsylvania attack.
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"Better is the enemy of good enough."
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#271887 - 09/26/14 05:52 PM
Re: Man Killed by Black Bear 40 miles from NYC
[Re: Arney]
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Veteran
Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
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Does anyone have an idea of what proportion of black bear attacks are predatory in nature, like this one appears to be? Versus more reactionary or defensive (e.g. to protect cubs or territory).
Could rabies be a factor in this story? There is some data that suggests that black bear attacks are more likely to be predatory than brown/grizzly bear attacks. Brown/griz attacks tend to be most often defensive in nature (from the bears perspective). Because of their great size and strength these bears can do incredible damage in their first attack, but once they perceive you to be no longer a threat, they will retreat. (The important exception to this would be a brown bear defending a food cache, a moose kill for example.) Hence the advice that in a brown bear attack, if all else fails, as a last resort curl up and play dead. Black bears are in general more timid than brown bears, and more likely to run away without attacking. However, when black bears do attack, there is good evidence that in many of these attacks the black bear is acting as a predator and you are lunch. Hence the advice that if attacked by a black bear, DO NOT PLAY DEAD, but rather fight back with any means available. This means that if traveling in areas where both black and grizzly bears might be present, one should take the time to learn how to tell them apart. As has been noted by others, one of the best sources of information on this stuff is Stephen Herrero's book "Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance". Herrero is a professor of Biology and Environmental Science at U of Calgary in Alberta. He is a world recognized expert in bear safety. In my opinion it is a must read for anyone living, working, or playing in bear country. Herrero says he has found no association of rabies with bear attacks. It could be, but he has not found evidence of it.
Edited by AKSAR (09/26/14 06:03 PM) Edit Reason: minor tweak
_________________________
"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more." -Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz
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#271889 - 09/26/14 06:20 PM
Re: Man Killed by Black Bear 40 miles from NYC
[Re: AKSAR]
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Geezer in Chief
Geezer
Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
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"Hence the advice that in a brown bear attack, if all else fails, as a last resort curl up and play dead."
This worked for an NPS colleague when stationed and working in Alaska. She was uninjured while a coworker was mauled. This was before bear spray was readily available (1980s)...
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Geezer in Chief
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#271897 - 09/26/14 07:40 PM
Re: Man Killed by Black Bear 40 miles from NYC
[Re: Arney]
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Addict
Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 631
Loc: Calgary, AB
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The study I linked to earlier in this thread found the bear to be predetory in 88% of fatal black bear attacks. This studied the 59 incidents resulting in the death of one or more people by a black bear from 1900-2009.
Unfortunately as this only covers fatalities, it doesn't look at encounters where the people survived so you can't see how many total encounters there may have been over that period or how many encounters not relating in fatalities may have been with black bears exhibiting predetory behavior (such cases were ancedotally mentioned in the study, but not enumerated).
That study did add: "However, we note that an analysis of fatal attacks that occurred over a long time period (110 years) may make black bear seem more dangerous than they are, because some people may focus on the total number and ignore the long time period during which the fatal attacks occurred."
In context, that's like one fatal attack every 2 years for all of the US (Alaska & the lower 48) and Canada.
_________________________
Victory awaits him who has everything in order — luck, people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck. Roald Amundsen
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#271906 - 09/27/14 03:26 PM
Re: Man Killed by Black Bear 40 miles from NYC
[Re: bigmbogo]
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Veteran
Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1517
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#271938 - 09/30/14 04:14 PM
Re: Man Killed by Black Bear 40 miles from NYC
[Re: bigmbogo]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 319
Loc: Canada
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From my Study of Case Studies, the Study cited above, two other American Studies, and a perusal of book; "Most" Black Bear Attacks that lead to Deaths are Bears that go Predatory, while "Most" Grizzly Bear Attacks are Accidental, Mother/Cub Related or involved Bears Protecting a Food Source. That does not means that a Grizzly Bear will not go predatory, it just means that it is less likely. In fact the most interesting difference between the Species is that Black Bear Mother will simply drive away a "Threat to its Cub(s)" while a Grizzly Mother will "Kill the Threat"
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Bruce Zawalsky Chief Instructor Boreal Wilderness Institute boreal.net
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#271945 - 09/30/14 06:42 PM
Re: Man Killed by Black Bear 40 miles from NYC
[Re: gonewiththewind]
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Old Hand
Registered: 08/18/07
Posts: 831
Loc: Anne Arundel County, Maryland
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The woman in the video says she does not want the bear euthanized. However, it is my understanding that the putting down of the bear is necessary to test it for rabies (by examination of the brain.)
_________________________
"Better is the enemy of good enough."
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#272138 - 10/09/14 09:26 PM
Re: Man Killed by Black Bear 40 miles from NYC
[Re: DesertFox]
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Addict
Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 631
Loc: Calgary, AB
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Yep, while rare, black bears will hunt you ... understating and being able to recognize this predatory behaviour is another tool in the toolbox for staying safe in bear country.
_________________________
Victory awaits him who has everything in order — luck, people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck. Roald Amundsen
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