This is how some of the media are painting people who talk about survival, and why we must be so careful in what we discuss and how we discuss it.
Christian Science Monitor Article

Disaster and emergency preparedness should not equate to anti-government or racism in anyone's mind, but it often does. As a person who has been through many natural disasters, some manmade ones, and as a father and Scoutmaster, I teach disaster and emergency preparedness. I have received comments about it drawing a similarity to characters in movies and on TV. I have never ventured out into the outdoors when I was not responsible for the safety of others. This should not call up visions of an anti-government extremist.

We need to not only take care, but we can help to change attitudes about people who are reasonable and prepare for the inevitable, but occasional, disaster. Even the government preaches emergency preparedness.

I have recently taken to lurking on some genuine “survivalist” sites and it has been an eye opening experience. There are some very disturbing world views out there. It is for good reason that Doug Ritter labels ETS as a “non-survivalist” site.

I come to ETS from an extensive background in volunteer SAR and public service, so I model the response to a disaster as generally positive. This is based on my first hand experience. The survivalist model seems to be that society will descend into utter chaos as soon as the grocery stores exhaust their supply of Twinkies.

The “Govment” response to bad situations will be generally helpful, but not instantaneous. Many survivalists think otherwise....

I think the distinction Doug Ritter makes is very important:

The focus of Equipped To Survive™ is survival preparedness, preparing to get through a short-term emergency to return to civilization, either via rescue or by normalization of the situation as the emergency conditions cease ... Bottom line, on Equipped To Survive™ we focus on survival preparedness, not survivalism.
- from the What Do You Mean, "Not A 'Survivalist' Site?" article

Realistically, I think the boat has sailed on terms like survivalist and prepper; you can't really escape the negative baggage they have so, to me anyway, it makes sense to me to simply steer clear of them.

That's why I love and value ETS so much. It's survival without the -ism. Many of the other sites are filled with real nutjobs.

Might as well get used to it. I've been tarred and feathered by the media for years, along with millions of others, because I own firearms. More than one even! And I have "an arsenal" of ammo (one brick of 500 .22LR equates to an arsenal for them). And I store my personal info in encrypted files on my computer. Lord help me if they find out I participate here on ETS as well ! Geez, and I carry a pocket knife too...

Even more than the article, the books referenced made a direct correlation between preparing and anti-government attitudes, even with being a public threat.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, the news has a few reports of emergency situations, such as the hurricane in Baja California, an emergency landing of an airplane, flooding in the Southwest, and the fires in California. All emergency situations where a little preparation can dramatically mitigate the harmful results.

Were they real world survivalists or folks from Government ABC agencies looking to discover if you own a match case?

Living in an unprecedented level of electronic government surveillance of communications combined with ridiculous levels of 'Political Correctness' and Government authorities tagging or pigeon holing of individuals, we would appear to be in an age of now self restriction / self editing of self expression.

Now that really is the slippery slope in my opinion. Being a compliant Politically Correct individual may well get your self killed in a survival situation. The ability to adapt and overcome cannot be underestimated.

I have even seen classic Black White Newspeak from authoritarian Governments being expressed.

...and that's what preparedness in the context of this forum is about. I'm in CA so earthquakes and wildfires are not to be taken lightly. We get them all the time and it's easy to get complacent, but true preparedness doesn't do complacent. Preparing for those natural disasters should be mandatory, but it's only recommended.

I can't do anything about the anti-gov survivalist thing. Seems those guys were born a century or three late. That train has left the station.

I think the whole population prepares for what they can, as far as they are able.

The difficulty is in how far you go. Insurance against common happenings is one thing, spending hundreds of thousands on a full nuclear shelter and twenty years of supplies is another.

It is difficult to explain ones level of preparation to someone who does not agree, either way, with your perception.

Religions have been founded on less.

The media is, among other things, big business (obviously.) Since fear is one of the few things to sell better than sex, the media paints those of us who like to be more independent, competent, and self-reliant together with the other less savory characters. It gives them more material to draw from, so it doesn't matter to them, apparently, that we, who practice disaster preparedness, could be counted among the more rational and balanced members of modern society.

I like that. Maybe that should become the ETS slogan.

Unfortunately, that is very true. Among many, many examples, it's a sad day when a potential employer must have access to your Facebook account before offering you a job...

"Were they real world survivalists or folks from Government ABC agencies looking to discover if you own a match case?"

Match cases! I have lots and lots of match cases, none of them registered. When match cases are outlawed, only outlaws will have match cases.....

The very rational goal of prepping does combine at times with a fairly anti-social attitude. I suppose it depends upon individual perceptions of potential emergencies.

Personally, I have experienced many more situations where G'vment helped greatly in emergencies than otherwise.

Ditto for me.

The government, like any large organization will often be cumbersome in responding to fast breaking events, just by virtue of its size. People mistake that cumbersomeness for deliberate evilness, which is not generally the case, in my opinion.

Meh, I just stay true to myself. At some point, I draw a line and not worry about what the masses may think about me. Otherwise, I'll eventually find myself pinned in a corner with my mouth shut.

I agree with Monanero and hikermor. There are some serious whackjobs who call themselves "survivalists" and "preppers". Even though only a tiny percentage of them move from harmless talk to actual antisocial actions, that is enough to to tar all of us with the same brush.

One reason is that the whackjobs make the best stories, so are most reported on by the media. However, it isn't just due to lazy reporting on the part of the media. Any reporter who surveys various "survivalist" web sites and forums will find on many of them a near total emphasis on guns, military equipment, conspiracy theories, and various rather unlikely TEOTWAWKI social collapse scenarios. It isn't surprising that the press tends to write stories about this.

Don't misunderstand me. Firearms can be a very useful survival tool. I own more than a few. Some military gear can be useful in civilian type survival situations. And social collapse can occur in some (fortunately rather rare) cases. However, the vast majority of emergency and survival situations don't involve guns, body armor, and zombies.

What drew me to ETS in the first place, and what keeps me here is that most participants here tend to focus on more likely situations and more practical everyday solutions. Storms, wildfires, earthquakes, and getting lost in the woods happen all the time. Zombie apocalypses not so much.

Problem is, when the government starts falsely labeling you as anti-government, it's somewhat of a self-fulfilling prophesy. You may start hating the government for intentionally mislabeling and trying to demonize you for no valid reason. Example: I'd never given a thought to paying my taxes, until the government labeled me and other upper-middle-class folks as "not paying my fair share", despite well over half of my income going to taxes. So now I look for every possible avenue to legally pay less taxes. All because the government put forth, falsely, that I was the cause of the problem.

these days its all computer algorithms.

does the algorithm that scans ETS and tracks all the people who come here ... really know the difference between a "survival expert" and a "survivalist"? I doubt it :-)

Pete

Good point. Saying you're "not a survivalist" means the computer puts you on the same list as a survivalist. Take note of this thread. We're all on a computer's list somewhere.

That brings up another concept. I'm a proponent for having a bunch of useless data noise related to websites on which I participate. Thus, for my protection, I submit the following noise:

survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist survivalist

Such admissions might get you noticed. Time to report yourself to the Government and explain that you know match cases are for matches..

http://homelandsecurity.ohio.gov/doc/CAT%20Military%20Surplus%20Stores.pdf

LOL- Nice one ireckon

This is why we police the ETS forums so closely. Thankfully, all y'all are damn fine at policing yourselves so us sheriffs can mostly just sit around playing mumbly peg. :-)
-Blast

Fluffy kittens Fluffy kittens Fluffy kittens Fluffy kittens Fluffy kittens Fluffy kittens Fluffy kittens Fluffy kittens Fluffy kittens Fluffy kittens Fluffy kittens Fluffy kittens Fluffy kittens Fluffy kittens Fluffy kittens Fluffy kittens Fluffy kittens Fluffy kittens Fluffy kittens Fluffy kittens Fluffy kittens Fluffy kittens Fluffy kittens Fluffy kittens Fluffy kittens Fluffy kittens Fluffy kittens Fluffy kittens Fluffy kittens

Great....now I guess I'm on PETA's watch list....*sigh*

PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals

I agree with AKSAR it's lazy reporting, and I think it's simply to generate ad revenue.

The unfortunate effect of this is that people that are truly interested in having a reasonable preparedness level will shy away of sharing this with neighbors and friends to get them prepared. This is no way to create a culture of preparedness.

This is less of a concern of an area that has a high occurrence of a natural hazard threat (earthquakes, hurricanes, blizzards, etc.) since people can say they're preparing for it.

Lately my advice to people to just get them thinking is plan how many days you can survive without electricity. Losing electricity is a secondary "disaster" to most hazards.

The negative effect is that people will equate prepping with anti-government ideology and then refuse to prep, thereby creating more problems when an emergency occurs. That will increase the load on us that do prepare for real world emergencies, as we are generally social people and care more about our communities than the non-preppers do.

The article referred to two books that define survivalist as anti-government. This is the hazard and why we need to be cognizant of how we approach certain subjects.

+1 on this.

Unfortunately though in some aspects, it seems this forum is slowly loosing many long time members. Many of the old stalwarts such as Bacpacjac, Dougwalkabout, Izzy, Dagney and many others are no longer contributing here on a regular basis. Even for myself, I seldom post here anymore and instead focus my attention on other forums such as Bushcraft USA which appeals more to my outdoor pursuits.

Mixed messages is also a big problem. Remember not too long ago when all good citizens were told by FEMA to have X amount of food and water for emergencies? Then branded as dangerous by DHS for doing what they were advised to do?

I didn't realize it when I joined, but CERT in my community has been a force for promulgating prepping without any anti-government message. We're tightly integrated with our sponsoring government entity and people see that.

I am fairly familiar with the FEMA material et al., but I must confess my ignorance with respect to the DHS statement to which you refer. Could you provide some more detail?

3 Days of Emergency food is still OK..But don't get too enthusiastic!
7+ Days of Emergency food is regarded as a Suspected 'Terrorist'.

Would you care to cite a source for that assertation?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD1T61oTrR8

But watching this video could also potentially get one characterized as a suspected 'terrorist' if you agree with the fellow giving the speech even if you think it in your mind. Careful now, there is also the rise of of the emergence of thought crime.

If this video is unacceptable for this forum then you should find the source at the the following website

https://publicintelligence.net/fbi-suspicious-activity-reporting-flyers/

Uh-oh, you're a dangerous, self-mutilating, knife owner, huh? (where's the Big Brother smilie?)

http://www.infowars.com/feds-label-bulk-buying-of-food-a-potential-terrorist-activity/

only one of many, but I didn't see a mainstream media source for this. InfoWars was one of the lesser "survival" sights I tried to link.

There was a link to one of these flyers in an earlier post. Critical and important language includes:

"Some of the activities, taken individually, could be innocent
and must be examined by law enforcement professionals in
a larger context to determine whether there is a basis to investigate."

This poses an important question - How alert and proactive do we wish our law enforcement agencies to be?

I looked at the site and followed the link to the PDF. It's nothing unusual to me. If you read the flyer from the FBI, it doesn't say "report anyone who buys more than seven days of food"! The profile that want you to look for includes making extremist religious statements, paying with credit cards with multiple names, have war wounds, appear to be complete idiots about what they're buying, *and* they're buying stuff in bulk. Then FBI makes the PC caveat that just because someone doesn't share your beliefs, it doesn't make him a terrorist. I wouldn't get too worried about it. InfoWars took something totally out of context.

Anyway, I agree that this is a nice forum where we can get level-headed advice about surviving getting lost in the wilderness or a natural disaster. Wasn't Martin Focazio on the news a few years ago? I thought he did a good job demonstrating to the public how everyone can make reasonable preparation for emergencies. Maybe he needs to up his game -- maybe fight off a few bears, beat up Nazis looking for the lost Ark, sneak into the Temple of Doom... That will attract media attention, I'm sure.

I have to say, you guys aren't so helpful putting me in touch with the Association of Survival Schools (A.S.S.). I've been trying to find them through google for a whole year, but all their sites are blocked by my browser for some reason.

Aw c'mon Bing.......we ain't gonna let a silly thing like "context" spoil a good conspiracy theory are we?

InfoWars looks to be a site run by wing nuts, designed to appeal to whack jobs.

it's important to realize that there is NO good resolution to this stuff. we believe that we are "free" people living in a "free" society. But in point of fact - when it comes to the information about us - we are anything but free. There is very little to stop BOTH governments and private organizations from collecting a LOT of data about our personal lives, and it goes well beyond any thoughts we might have about the political system.

Case in point ... advertisements on the internet. Did you ever decide to BUY something on the internet, you put the item into a shopping cart, but then you cancelled the purchase. then 4-5 days later - you are surprised to see adds about the exact same kind of item popping up on your computer screen. WHY? because there are "spam bots" that work for marketing organizations. they go around and watch ALL the stuff that people purchase. and they also watch all the things that you wanted to buy. and all the Web pages where you were thinking about buying something. and that info. gets SOLD. it is a commercial marketing business - and very big money. so your personal habits and buying tastes are all stored in the banks of data about YOU ... sitting out there in computers somewhere.

it follows that if commercial organizations can store and analyze this stuff ... the Government (actually governments plural) can do the same thing on a MEGA scale. Your personal habits can all be cataloged and categorized. Don't be surprised if this is exactly what is happening. After all, what laws really protect YOU? and who would ever enforce them, anyway??

the struggle between "control" and "freedom" is a never-ending battle. But in many ways "freedom" has already become an illusion.

Pete

Quote from OP article:
"For the most part, survivalists – or disaster-prepared “preppers,” as they like to call themselves – are interested mostly in indulging useful fantasies about “bug-out” packs and other necessary items to have and know how to use if there is a major societal disturbance that leads to uncontrolled unrest."

Readership increases as media writers present the world in brightly limned dichotomies. The writer in this case sacrifices some clarity in using the fascinating phrase "useful fantasies" juxtaposed with "societal disturbance that lead to uncontrolled unrest". "Fantasies" of this sort are occurring daily and occupy most of the daily news, but have escaped this writers notice entirely. But this writers job is to sell newspapers, or the digital equivalent, and that end is not served by exploring the wide world of prepping: that will be left to NatGeo's doomsday preppers.

It is easier to understand a world composed of heavily armed and fortified preppers and the presumed readers-folks who live un-prepped lives. Reality is much more nuanced, and preppers range from those with pockets empty except for grand dad's barlow knife to those with the 5 pound survival key chain.

Perhaps prepping is called fantasy because most of us will die from cancer, heart disease, and respiratory problems, issues that a PSK does not address; but we all make existential decisions; when I start thinking that my decisions are better than those made by others, I read Ecclesiastes...while hunkered in my bunker...

"A major societal disturbance that leads to uncontrolled unrest" -- I, too, have visited survivalist sites. I think this is a code phrase for stuff like "race wars." Or maybe some sort of internal enemy ("jack-booted thugs"). For some reason, situations that could result in fighting seem to have their attention.

It's hard to imagine characterizing the more realistic emergencies (hurricanes, tornados, floods, etc.) in the same manner. "Societal disturbance"? No, these are natural disasters. "Uncontrolled unrest"? Katrina, as terrible as it was, didn't look like the LA Riot in the aftermath. Yes, the media often skips over the more reasonable forms of emergency preparation, but boring reality just doesn't make sensational news.

many of the fads ... like "Zombies" and "Prepping" are unfortunately tied to commercialism. Same thing for Y2K - used as a vehicle to stir up hype and then sell products. a shame.

Chaosmagnet ... I you look closely at my earlier discussion ... I only mentioned "freedom". I did not say anything about political parties or views, and indeed I didn't even mention specific countries or types of government. That is NOT because I am hiding a subliminal message that favors one American party over another. It IS because I have noticed the same concerns across a broad variety of nations in the world today - with a wide variety of different political systems.

If you truly want to be "free" ... perhaps the solution is to become a goat herder in the Caucasus Mountains, or a hillbilly in Arkansas. The only problem - then you ARE a goat herder or a hillbilly :-)

dT

Thanks for the rec, Ecclesiastes is available for Kindle -- mine has a great library for the bunker: Greek classics, Shakespeare, Ayn Rand...classics, good reading, nothing particularly light, good food for thought.

Well Today I bought 24 450gm 1lb cans of Jam (Strawberry, Apricot etc. with Free Delivery) They had run out of Marmalade. (I will get some more when available) That is equivalent to 2 years worth of British WW2 Jam Ration. Canned Jam is hard to actually source in the UK rather than Jam in Glass Jars. But I found a South African Jam supplier in the UK.

What does this indicate about me?

a) Someone who likes Jam.
b) A happy camper
c) A Bushcrafter
d) A Prepper.
e) A Doomsday Prepper
f) A Survivalist.
g) A Survivalist Terrorist.

A high risk of type 2 diabetes?

+1

I know it sounds like a lot of Jam/Marmalade but I am currently expanding the pantry stocks out to a year+ from the current 3-4 months supply.

From the Nutritional Analysis of New Zealand's Antarctic Field Rations.

http://www.anta.canterbury.ac.nz/documents/GCAS%20electronic%20projects/Sam%20Taylor%20Project.pdf

And just because it illustrates our point in this thread:

Volcano Erupts in Japan, many Hikers on the Mountain

Be prepared, because you just don't know what can happen. A simple day hike can turn deadly.

I personally think that the folks who are extending their pantry stocks - are doing a very wise thing. I'm really not sure how you could lose on that proposition ... even if you never have an emergency, you have still stockpiled food at cheaper prices. It is really unlikely that food prices will drop a lot in the future.

Pete

Individual situations may vary. I stock some food. But I live in an apartment, so there is only so much space. Also, I like tasty stuff. I end up throwing out a lot of canned goods that cannot compete with their fresh counterpart.

Contrary to all the sites and posters that tell you to buy MREs or whatever, I learned here to stock stuff that I can stomach even in an emergency, because you don't want to be eating stuff you are not used to and you don't like when you are feeling miserable already. Another example of why ETS is a good site!

If you truly want to be "free" ... perhaps the solution is to become a goat herder in the Caucasus Mountains, or a hillbilly in Arkansas. The only problem - then you ARE a goat herder or a hillbilly :-)



Pete, having lived in Arkansas all my life (actually a 5th generation resident) I can confidently say there is absolutely nothing wrong with being a hillbilly in Arkansas. I invite you to research Crystal Bridges of American Art -- which is about six blocks from my house.

I had a cousin who WAS a hillbilly by any definition. He lived off the land, grew his own tobacco and sorghum for sugar. He grew a huge garden and preserved what he grew, cured his own meat, made his own leather. And grew his own corn to distill into his private stock. Those are skills we all wish we had. I wish I had been born a decade earlier so I could have spent a lot of time with him, learning everything I could.

Pete, come visit sometime! Life here is very good, but NOTHING like the stereotype.

I agree completely. Stockpile appealing, tasty stuff. Who decrees you must eat bland chow in a disaster?

I think there aren't any choices or decision we make in life that others will not judge, comment upon , or feel free to stereotype. Even before any decisions or choices there are folks who will judge you on your looks, gender, background , or whatever.

So, look inside you, be guided by good values and love of mankind, and shed those awkward worries about what others think of you.

If you are not harming anyone else, you are OK