here is a link to my Youtube of a test firing of the blanks and bear rounds. i did not want to do the test in the canoe wilderness and disturb anyone who might be in hearing range,plus that might attract unwanted attention.
so when the week long trip was over and i had a swim to wash up and change into my driving clothes i pulled off the Echo Trail and up a logging road to this old cutting to take a few shots.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEZUXhvhhjo&list=UUw_6IX2Lurj33HDAyz7BIXw

Nice! But you, um, didn't leave the spent brass laying there did you?

Full-house .357 Mag stuff really does have a kick! Looks like the blanks worked fine but the real stuff sounded a lot louder on camera. Is that your perception hearing them live?

after i turned off the camera i policed the area up.
i will admit the first bear round caught me off guard.the blank had no recoil and when i squeezed off the first 180 Gr the kick flipped my wrist around a bit.
the blanks had enough of a blast that i'm sure they would work as a scare round.
they make a "cowboy round" that has more smoke so i might give a bag of those a try.

What alternative noisemaker options might there be to a 357 blank round? I, too would be a bit concerned about blanks right next to the real thing in a revolver - too many opportunities for something to go awry. But a 357 is a marvelously versatile mechanism, isn't it? I have owned one for more than 50 years.

I also watched your video on total knee replacement, a procedure that might be in my future. Thanks for the info!

You know, I didn't think of this before but you might want to try a .38/.357 "Snake Load" ie shot cartridge. It would have basically no chance of actually injuring a bear (save maybe a lucky strike to the eye) but I would think they're probably more water tight than a blank round.

Glad to see you picked up your brass!

hike..another noise maker would be the small air horns that are sold to attract attention or warnings when power boating.
canoe trippers have taken to attaching them to a PFD as part of a ditch kit. i have been told that just the WHOOSH!! of a pepper sprayer will chase a bear.
however as long as i have the 357 i may as well find a way to use it as a non lethal bear defense with the lethal one as a last resort.
about that knee of yours.the best real bit of survival advice i can offer is not about 357's,fire lighters,water filters or BOB's and EDC's it's that getting a painful knee fixed could be a life saver.
on my last canoe trip i felt 20,ok 10,years younger.i could carry 35-45 pound packs over portages without rest stops and was pain free.
faced with a real survival problem like a ditched canoe and swim to shore doing that without the nasty/severe pain in my knee joint could make a huge problem a doable one.
always dealing with the knee was like dragging a cement block around and trying to run from a pack of zombies or climb over earthquake damage could make survival iffy.
i would get it replaced sooner than later.

Thanks, CD. I am told I am a great candidate for KR, and it looks like it is something that is in my future. I really appreciate your information and insight

The blanks didn't sound as loud to me, either...but that may not be an issue.
I would be inclined to carry only live ammo, giving me the option of putting the first round into the dirt...or the bear, if need be.
Some years ago, I was instructed to always shoot the same gun, with the same ammo: reducing what variables I could, would reduce what liabilities I would encounter after a shooting. This instruction was delivered to me--as an LEO--with the consideration that I might strike an unintended target. In the backcountry, the liabilities are different, but the outcome, not so much...

I'm completely horrified at the idea of carrying blanks in a defensive gun. What if you think you're shooting a blank when you aren't? What if you think you're shooting a live round, when you aren't? What if you need your first round to be a live round?

As UncleGoo says you can choose to put a live round into the dirt, if your plan is to try to convince the bear that you are not food. This strikes me as a much better idea. For me, I carry a pistol loaded with live rounds and bear spray.

Ditto UncleGoo and Chaos. If you don't want to hit the bear, shoot dirt or water. The idea of mixing ammo loads is simply not a good one.

I would have to echo others that mixing blanks and live rounds seems like a bad idea to me. It just looks like a recipe for a bad outcome. If you want non-lethal bear protection, carry bear spray. If you want to carry a firearm for bear protection then it should be loaded with all live rounds.

I have had some very mixed experience with warning shots to scare bears. Once on Kodiak we had a bear snorting around in the alders behind camp. One guy fired two or three rounds overhead from a 44 mag and that seemed to do the trick. We had no further trouble from that bear. In this case, blanks as noise makers might have worked as well.

On the other hand, one time two of us were sheep hunting in the Wrangells. My buddy had shot a Dall Sheep earlier that day, and we were packing the meat and trophy down the mountain. The biggest black bear I have ever seen stepped out of the brush in front of us. With backpacks full of sheep parts we smelled like tasty morsels! It was open season on black bears in that unit, so we could have taken him as game. However, we were both exhausted, already had packs heavy with game, and we still had miles to go to camp. While my buddy kept him covered, I fired a 30-06 round over his head. The bear hardly flinched. I fired a second shot into the dirt in front of him, which kicked up a lot of dirt and fine gravel into his face. That finally got his attention and he ran off. In this case, blanks probably would not have worked. Even though we didn't shoot the bear, it took a live round kicking up dirt to make the point.

EDIT: I don't have data to prove it, but I would strongly suspect that in the above cases, the 44 Mag and the 30-06, both with live rounds are louder than a 357 blank.

Speaking of bear spray, today's paper had a story of yet another successful use of spray.

I realize in my earlier posts on the subject of carrying blanks in a defensive gun that I haven't been entirely clear about my reasoning.

If you ever draw a gun in earnest, whether it's to defend yourself against predatory bears, armed robbers, or invaders from Mars, it's likely to be the worst day of your life. You'll be under a great deal of stress. Physical symptoms of stress in life-threatening situations often include tachycardia (very fast heart rate), tachypsychia (altered perception of time, where events seem to move very quickly or very slowly), tunnel vision, auditory exclusion, and loss of fine motor skills.

Even if you're very experienced and/or have had significant stress inoculation training, you're likely to find even simple tasks that you're well accustomed to accomplishing very difficult to complete.

Trying to remember in a situation like this how many rounds you've fired, and how many remaining rounds are blanks, strikes me as being ill-advised.

There are two other big reasons in my mind. One, your first shot may be the only shot you get. It sure would stink if that first shot ended up being a blank. Second, you may need every round. In a fight for your life, capacity may be critical to your survival.

CANOEDOGS already got an earful about his use of blanks in another thread (and I joined in! ). While I acknowledge his right to do as he likes (and many folks in MN don't carry at all, so he's already ahead of many) I still wouldn't do it myself. It does seem to me that a live round in the dirt or in the air isn't going to be all that dangerous to a person and will be at least as loud as a blank.

On this topic I must agree with the others. You may not have time to get follow up shots off if a bear jumps you at close range. A fellow in AK was charged by a grizzly and didn't even have time to aim as the bear bore down on him. Pretty lucky to kill a big bear with point shooting, and even then it died right at his feet. Granted, Grizzly bears are more aggressive than black bears so CANOEDOGS is probably justified in not being too worried.

On a related note, I have seen papers that purport that bear spray is more effective than handgun fire at stopping bear charges. I believe this is based on just one study and I do take it with a major grain of salt, yet it seems quite plausible. Even against human attackers handguns aren't reliable fight stoppers; we carry a pistol not because it's a death ray but because it's more portable and easier to conceal than a rifle. A bear may be the size of a human or it can be several times our size. Bears are 3x stronger per pound of muscle than a human and have denser skeletal systems. A charging bear can be stopped "psychologically" (ie convinced to break off the attack) or injured to the point where it can't continue the charge. Some noise or pain might accomplish the first kind of stop. If the second kind is required you may have only a few moments to deliver a shot to the CNS (an instant kill) or the heart; those are smallish targets moving very quickly. A shot to heart may kill the bear but you might have an interesting 20-30 seconds until the bear is convinced it's dead.

Pepper spray on the other hand fires a very large cloud that's much more likely to hit the target. Bear spray is much more powerful than the OC used on humans. It has a very good track record, although it too has limitations (chief of which is difficulty to deploy in high winds).

I'm very much a gun guy but if I were going somewhere I expected to see bears then bear-strength OC would be my primary weapon with a firearm as backup to that. It's probably going to work and will save the life of the bear, too. It also seems to me that if a bear gets OC'd by humans a few times it might begin to associate us with pain and danger, not an easy meal.

Is this the study? - http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/bear_cougar/bear/files/JWM_BearSprayAlaska.pdf

Spray looks pretty good to me, but nothing is perfect. I worked for years with a lady who survived a grizz attack unscathed by playing dead - it was in Alaska pre bear spray. Her partner was injured.

At boy scout camp this summer there was a Idaho forest service man who had used pepper spray 3 times. Each time on cougars, not bear.

Couple of weeks ago went hiking in the Idaho panhandle. Saw lots of other hikers, most carried large handguns, a couple groups had bear spray. Even the Subaru driving hipsters carried big iron.

Here is a link to a map showing known wolf packs in Idaho.

http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors/...status-meeting/

LInk to griz
http://www.cfc.umt.edu/grizzlybearrecovery/Ecosystems.html

Lions and wolves and bears.

Given the feedback, a dedicated noisemaker might be worthwhile. Bear bangers, specifically those with the pen-style launchers, seem to be a popular item for this up here. They seem relatively compact & easy to slide into an accessible pocket. I haven't picked one up myself though, so I have no personal experience with them.




I'm not sure this is actually true. I seem to recall Dr. Hererro did a study and found that a majority of black bear fatalities were due to aggressive yong males that were effectively hunting the people (a quick search turned up a NY Times article mentioning the research).


I believe that is the major study about bear spray. Smith & Hererro also did a similar study, Efficacy of Firearms for Bear Deterrence in Alaska, that makes a good companion read (you can find a copy at the end of this article: Firearms not always the best bear deterrent, study says).

Bear attack in Wyoming kills Utah man

http://seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2024545745_apxbearattack.html

A hunter was killed in a grizzly attack in Alberta a short time ago. Poor guy ran afoul of a sow with a cub and a kill cached nearby. I suppose hunters are more at risk because they are trying to move quietly (as opposed to hikers making noise deliberately). Don't know if he had time to fire a shot, but if a mad griz comes out of dense bush at full speed you're a pretty amazing (or lucky) marksman if you can make a lethal shot in that situation.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/09/09/...ly-bear-attack/

i'll round off this blanks and bears post with that photo of some bear digging in a camp i used.rocks,some big ones,moved and the ground and rotten logs tore up when Mr Big was looking for a dinner of grubs and ants.
i have used camps before with bear sign like this but as long as it's just normal rooting around for food and not ripped up plastic bags and someones camp gear scattered around the brush i feel fairly safe.
the food bag was hung high that night and the spray and gun handy but any worry was not about an attack but that lost food would mean a few days on short rations while i made my way back to the landing and my parked car.i did think if a bear came around i would be able to chase it off but it's a adventure i could do without.
lots of good remarks guys and maybe by next spring i may go fully loaded!!!