I have no experience with these devices and personally I see them as gadgets. But I want to be open minded and I'm sure a lot of you have experience with them,and opinions on thier usefulness as opposed to matches and other methods such as fire steels etc?
The reason I got interested in this is I see they now have a piston which fits in an Altoids tin.

I tend to view it like you do, but if I was going to try one I'd be tempted to try this Numyth Vulcan v2 piston. However I don't recall ever seeing a fire piston small enough for an Aloids tin.

I use fire pistons in Physics classes to give students an idea of the power of compression. To get a fire out of it you have to have a completely dry char cloth or similar tinder, good technique, etc. They are much harder to use than any of the more modern techniques. I would even consider it below a bow drill and similar primitive fire starting methods because you have to carry something to do it with. Those techniques can be improvised in the field. The space is much better spent on a mini Bic or matches. Even a ferro rod is much better. For an Altoids tin type kit, I use the metal Spark-Lite.

Respectfully,

Jerry

Thanks Phaedrus. I saw it on Ebay. It was in an altoids tin and looks to be all metal.

Thanks Jerry. I agree that it would be a bad choice, even for a pyro like me. I like things that are like me: Simple and straight forward. Mini bic, storm matches and spark-lite. In my experience gadgets tend to fail in the field, even under the best conditions, let alone in the worst. Things break, parts get lost, etc.
I also noticed that UCO Stormproof matches in the small vial have a nifty little ferro rod, but no mention of a striker. I could assume that one is meant to use their knife. But what if it's lost or is stainless steel?

I haven't seen a ferro rod / UCO matches bundle, but with respect to the second part of your question ferro rods do not require a carbon blade, all they require is a sharp edge. I use the spine of my stainless knife all the time (I modified my sheath to carry the ferro rod & don't even bring a striker). It is flint & steel that requires a carbon blade I believe.

My understanding of this is that the material in the ferro rod is softer than steel so you are scraping material off of the rod. With flint & steel, you need carbon but this is because the flint is harder than the steel and in that case you are actually scraping the material off of the blade, not the flint.

That's absolutely right. With a flint, the sparks come from the steel of the knife -- tiny shards of iron are burning. With a ferro rod, the sparks come from the rod itself -- tiny shards of cerium are what's burning.

You do need a minimum hardness to get a decent spark with a ferro rod. The 56 HRC of a SAK seems to be the minimum. I agree that gadgets will fail at the worst possible time. The only 'Gadget' I found that was worth it's weight was the ferro rod/mag block fire starters.

heres the one I found on Ebay, Phaedrus.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Altoid-Tin-Fire-...=item27e9f01f7d

Interesting denis, Chaos and Mark.
I had been led to believe that you needed a carbon edge to use the flint rods. Hence the reason people had started to using bits of hi carbon hacksaw blades. I thank all of you for correcting that.
Yes I have carried and used the magnesium blocks and have used them. With a hacksaw blade. That's a piece I can discard now. I don't like that you must construct a windproof enviroment so the magnesium shavings don't blow away, but I understand that they have saved lives.
I saw the matches with ferro rod on Ebay. It claims brand new and sealed. I have a bid on them now.

I have not used a fire piston myself, but the guys who taught the matchless fire starting class at University of Scouting last fall tried to use one, with no success (i should probably mention they also tried with a bow drill set with no success either). Seems to me they are rather fidgety devices, with ongoing issues related to the gaskets required and as others have mentioned the required tinder as well.

From a gadget perspective, I suppose they could be fun to play around with, or good for demonstration purposes, but I wouldn't add it to my fire starting kit with all the other, more reliable methods around. Matches, lighters, fire steel, or flint and steel, seems like enough to me but maybe i'm missing something.

That item has a few faults which may decrease the fun with the new toy.
Aluminum may not be the best material for a fire piston as it is a fairly good heat conductor. In the picture the O ring protrudes too much from the piston. That will contribute to fast wear and indicates a bad fit of the piston. The surfaces of piston and tube show marks of improper cutting. If the inside of the tube is machined equally bad, the seal may be insufficient and further the wear of the O ring.
I would not buy it.

Those reviews have to be fake, or all the bad reviews were deleted.

Cool. Looks like it would be neat to play with, and the price is reasonable.



Why do you say that? I know that not all of their reviews are fake because I have written reviews that are posted to that site. Perhaps they delete bad reviews but I doubt it, there are poor reviews for other products.

All in all I don't think a fire piston is a great tool. As others have said they're fussy, they require maintenance and lube and are not super robust. Personally I prefer a firesteel even to matches.

I have been doing business with goinggear.com for quite some time, and I have the strong impression that they would not delete a poor review. There's no way for me to check, so I can't rule it out entirely.

I have no affiliation with goinggear.com other than as a customer.

I've never heard of goinggear but I'll check itout. I must say that I myself find it a tiny bit strange that there were no negative feedback on the little piston I saw. And I agree that it looks fun to play with, but it would never go in my gear. I'd rather have another item for the space it takes up, matches, tube lighter or even a large ferro rod. JMHO. Here is the link to the storm matches with included ferro rod.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/191297408441?_trksid=p2045573.m570.l4467&_trkparms=gh1g%3DI191297408441.N19.S2.M-1137.R10.TR16

Oh, someone. I think it was Hiker (Too lazy too look for the post)mentioned they paid 32 dollars for an exotec match safe.I have seen them on ebay in orange and black for as little as 22.71. No affiliation with Ebay, just passing along info.
Again, thanks for all the feedback from everyone.

Since a piston depends on compressing air to high pressure, I have a tough time believing that the small quantity of air in a small Altoid sized piston can be feasibly compressed to a degree to result in compression. The more air that you start with, the higher the resulting pressure.

I don't remember what I paid for mine but I love my Exotac MatchCap XL.

I had one. Don't bother buying one, use the space in your kit for a Bic.

i agree with leigh and other: not worth having.

i bought a fancy custom aluminum fire-piston. spent a bunch of time beating it (and myself) up trying to get a satisfactory burn using char cloth, etc. never did, so down the road it went...

so i went back to carrying mag/flint bars, ferro rods, peanut lighters, and mini bics. done.

I have a question. Magnesium/flint bars have been problematic for me.

The magnesium filings have to be kept in a nice small pile to allow the thing to work.

Most importantly, how do you generate the pile of filings in the first place? Making magnesium filings seems the best way to prevent having too sharp a knife! Is there any other way to do it?

have a question. Magnesium/flint bars have been problematic for me.

The magnesium filings have to be kept in a nice small pile to allow the thing to work.

Most importantly, how do you generate the pile of filings in the first place? Making magnesium filings seems the best way to prevent having too sharp a knife! Is there any other way to do it?


[/quote]

1) When it comes to magnesium/flint bars I find that only the DOAN brand, which is the original, is worth buying. Everything is an imitation thereof. I've used various others and they vary between the so-so and useless.
2) The original recommended method was to dig a pit and scrap shaving into it. That works but making a tinder bundle and scraping shavings into that is much more effective.
3) Use the spine of your knife not the edge.

I've never been able use magnesium shavings to start a fire.

Use the magnesium as a booster rather than the primary source of ignition. Personally I prefer a Bic.

I know how it's supposed to work, I've just never had any luck with it. IMOHO fatwood shavings are much better. Despite having several good magnesium products for the space they take up I'd rather have another firesteel or even a lighter.

I agree. I might pack a good magnesium bar (Firesteel dot com has good ones) to prepare for the following unlikely scenario: I managed to get all my tinder completely soaked while it's about 30 degrees F. In that scenario, Mg shavings will still ignite from my ferro rod in the wet and cold. Also, there's a decent chance of the Mg transferring heat and igniting the wet cotton I was carrying, and so on.

Why would I not start fire with Mg on a regular basis? It's because successfully using Mg requires me to have a heightened level of focus and energy.

By the way, my Mini Bic will likely be working in the scenario described above. So, I'd try that first.

I salute those that can use Mg, but I haven't had much luck. Furthermore for he size and weight of the mag chunk I could carry something else that I know will work for me. A 4g ESBIT tablet is one of my favorites. I have a chamber vacuum machine and seal them in tiny red mylar bags, perfect for survival use. They never expire or spoil, they don't absorb water and will burn when wet. They're also easy to light (with flame or a spark if you shave them as you would fatwood or mg).