I'm a fan of a good knife, but I think I might disagree and rate fire as more important. Georgraphical differences, perhaps.

I always include fire in each of these categories, Wildman:

Shelter = warmth and protection from the elements and fire is a big part of that most of the year here. I can usually find deadwood and vines to build a shelter without using my knife.

Water = fire makes potable water for me by boiling to disinfect or to melt snow or ice.

Food = fire for cooking, even if we're taking a stove and not a campfire.

Fire = signalling, protection, light, comfort....

I don't disagree with your thinking Bacpacjac.

When I was in the Great White North and the temp was -14F, a fire could be burning while I made a shelter. I'd take a break and warm up the hands over the fire. When the shelter was finished, I'd move the fire inside.

You really need both fire and shelter to be a happy camper, but shelter can often be found or slightly modified with little or no use of a knife. Natural shelters are typically rock shelters or cave entrances, uprooted tree balls, tangles of debris, or whatever. My best nights in the outdoors have been in nice airy rock shelters, with good rain protection, superior ventilation, a soft sandy floor, and a scenic view - better than any tent or cabin!

Add a fire and you are set.....

Any well equipped individual will carry a blade of some sort, and the means to start a fire, but I have carried redundant fire starters for years. The need for fire is absolutely critical

I think the other problem is how cold it really is and what level of humidity, a lot of poor fire lighting equipment works in good dry weather and then fails when you really need it i.e. when it gets cold or exposed to high levels of humidity.

That is precisely why I favor matches (good quality). They have worked for me in some pretty foul conditions (-40F). When it gets really dicey, you need good tinder, decent fuel, and a spot out of the weather to get a fire going. It also makes sense to carry a liquid fueled stove and cookset. They are dependable in really nasty conditions.

Some years ago, three of us were setting out on a SAR mission, starting at 10 PM with snowshoes - winter, ascending in deep snow, and quite cold. I had packed my stove and cook set. One of my companions asked what we had for fire - I produced my gear. he promptly included yet another similar set in his pack. We were all fine with the redundancy. As it happened, neither was actually used.

Hooray for redundancy, Hikermor!

I'm in the "you can't have enough" category, ever since I had an incident where two of my three fire starters didn't work. (Scouting drilled the "threes" into me, too.) The cotton balls didn't catch fire, because A) they weren't 100% cotton, and B) I'd put too much vaseline in them and I'd kept them smooshed in little zip bags. My matches got used up due to strong wind and rain, even when I was behind a large rock; and I couldn't get enough sparks out of my ferro rod because it was new and I wasn't as experienced with it. Thankfully, I had a Bic lighter and a packet of tissues to ameliorate the sodden cotton balls; but even then, I had a difficult time due to bad weather and lack of dry kindling. (Ended up digging up some dead branches from under a felled tree.)

Since then I've learned to use my ferro rod properly, carry twice the matches, and make sure that my cottonballs aren't soaked and are made from 100% cotton. I've also learned to carry fresh chemical hand warmers in my kit, because even when you have multiple ways to make a fire, it's really hard to do so when your fingers have gone numb!


--M

I carry spares -- matches and lighter-- in the FAK.

Are you sure that this is due to BOTH problems? I understand the need for 100% cotton.

I have yet to find a problem with TOO much vaseline. I keep the SOAKED vaseline cotton balls smooshed in little zip bags as well. When starting a fire, I take a bit and spend about 30 seconds fluffing it out as much as possible and then the fluffed out ball takes a ferro spark VERY easily and burns for quite a while.

I haven't tried this but I understand putting a bit of metal under the cotton ball will extend the flame even further since the melted petroleum jelly will not melt into the ground.

Am I missing something? Perhaps I am not trying the soaked cotton balls in sufficiently bad conditions that this error has yet to cause problems?

All's fair in survival! No such thing as cheating. I would suggest adding a few ESBIT tablets to your kit as well. They're very small (the 4gram ones are about the size of a peice of Dentyne chewing gun), waterproof and basically "immortal" as far as shelf life goes. They burn long and hot and can be scraped and lit with a ferro rod as well as with open flame.

As you say, redundancy!

Redundant, Robust, and Easily Usable

We should pack our gear for poor weather, worse conditions, and unforeseen accidents