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#269812 - 05/11/14 03:01 AM Follow as I learn during my first axe refurb
kevingg Offline
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Registered: 10/21/05
Posts: 442
Loc: NH
I started this thread to document my learning process during my first time through the restoration of a council tool and collins legitimus. This is an ongoing process!

Following my recent fail to acquire a GB SFA from LLBean and some unfortunate financial developments at tax time; I decided to save the money and head out to the shed and see what I might restore. I had a badly rusted 3.5 lb council tool Dayton (age unknown) and an un identified double bit, also 3.5. Only markings on the double bit is text "3 1/2". The Council is badly banged up and I have no idea what sort of activity it was subjected to.

I struggled through the removal of the helves as I don't have a proper work area. I'm following approaches I learned here but I have limited resources. I forgot to take shots before the vinegar bath too! These photos are post bath, and post sanding of the council. I have not sanded the double bit yet. I'd like to put a short, maybe 26" on the council tool.



After a bit of work the double bit reveals a logo. Collins Legitimus. Any idea how old? With a little research and feedback from friends online, I learned that Collins Legitimus went out of production in 1966 so this is at least as old. I found this example online of a restore of the same Collins head. It's mirror finish is amazing and started out just like mine. Does one need tools to accomplish this, I wondered.


______________________________
Did a little looking at Lowes and I took a giant leap ahead in power today by investing in a Gator brand sanding attachment for my drill. Actually invest is not the right term - it's only about $5. Yahoo! Now I can take this to the level I want more quickly. The product came with three stick on disks 60, 100 & 150 grit. Starting with 60 grit:

It was quite simple to remove major pits and deep scratches.
Graduated from 60 grit to 100 deciding I was not going to remove more steel. Pits and deeper scratches that remain, I'm leaving for "character" sake.

I went to hand sanding mode now after finishing 150 grit on drill. Here it is after I did one side by hand with 220 - it's starting to look good!

I printed up a profile guide from the forest service publication "an axe to grind". It's cool! This photo shows where the guide "hits" indicating I've got some meat to remove when I get to filing.

Got both sides sanded to 220 grit. All major scratches are gone except at bit where I believe they are in the file zone and will be cleaned up when sharpening. Below see first pic and current condition. Like a true fool I jumped into this without ever taking the real "before" pic when it was all rusted in the shed!!



Edited by kevingg (05/11/14 03:02 AM)

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#269813 - 05/11/14 03:02 AM Re: Follow as I learn during my first axe refurb [Re: kevingg]
kevingg Offline
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Registered: 10/21/05
Posts: 442
Loc: NH
_______________________________
I just bought handles for this and the Collins - thanks forum friends for the tip on house handle website. Have a look at the Collins in the first couple photos. I vinegar bathed it to remove surface rust, but nothing else yet. I'm tempted to leave it's natural patina rather than sand shiny like I'm doing the council - thoughts?

Well after doing the 400 and 600, I did a quick five minutes each with my 1000 and 2000 wet dry sandpapers on the Council. I promise I'm not going to be neurotic about trying to keep this shine once this becomes a woods axe. Since this is my very first restore, I wanted to see how far i could take it for experience. Next step going to work on reprofiling the edge using the USFS guide I posted a bit ago and a file.

At this point in my journey I've reached a mirror finish on the Council Tool, and resigned myself to put the Collins on hold until I "learn my way" through the Council project. If you saw my other post, you know that I recently scored a Grandfors Bruks Wildlife Hatchet at a giveaway price; but it didn't affect my desire to do these restorations. In fact, I am enjoying this activity more and more with each step I take.

A week or so ago I bought my handles from House Handles; a website with great prices, selection and high quality handles. Shipping is also at cost which is nice. If you order from them, be sure to request "select grain handles" and no finish (you'll want to linseed it yourself). They up charge a couple bucks for this but its worth it.

While waiting for the handles to arrive, I methodically planned my next steps by reading anything and everything I could find on the topic of refinishing axes, axe re-profiling, axe sharpening, axe hanging as well as general axe use, maintenance and care materials.
[video=youtube;Xz3rs-eaN3E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz3rs-eaN3E[/video]
When I found a great resources, I read and re-read them. From these works I formed a list of things I'd like to make and/or acquire to get through future project steps - like a wooden carpenter's mallet, some proper files, wood rasp, linseed oil, Swel-Lok, file card, Wonderbar rust eraser... In addition to the regular advice and feedback from the forums, I have found the following to be indispensable:

1. An Axe to Grind on youtube by the U.S. Forest Service [url="https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/recreational_trails/publications/fs_publications/99232823/"]Axe to Grind by the U.S. Forest Service[/url] as well as the detailed PDF of the same title.

2. The [url="http://thewoodslife.com/?p=1579"]Woods Life Blog[/url] has three fantastic blogs on axe restoration and care.

My plan is to reprofile the Council Tool with a file soon because the cheek is just too thick. I realize now that I might have been better off doing this before the fine grit sanding work I've done, but I don't mind doing it again as my goal is to do it right first and foremost.

I'm also thinking ahead about the hang. I like detail in the Forest Service publication and video, so I'm planning to follow it closely. One of my next purchases will be Swel-Lok which is the recommendation Bernie Weisgerber (author of Axe to Grind) for the wedge treatment prior to driving it home. I also need a "Carpenter's Wooden Mallet", and tonight decided to make one from an old fence post I was going to throw away. I saw the beginnings of a handle already, so decided to go with it!

I made a couple vertical cuts down the quadrants of the existing "handle", then turned the post on its side and began to cut out the wedges.

An excuse to use the Gransfors I just acquired for $30:

________________________________
Shaved / rounded the square handle left from the saw cuts. (thats a colt .380 pony in my pocket, I wasn't just happy to see you)

Next I just sanded the heck out of everything for a few minutes


Now I think I have a serviceable mallet for hanging/wedge driving!


____________________________
Today I finished the mallet by installing an oak facade over one face of the cedar. This will be more durable I suspect. It's two "craft" slats cut out of a $5 plank from Lowes. I used Titebond II wood glue and a couple couple countersunk wood screws. Also seen in the picture below is a new file I purchased and a finger guard made from oak scrap. Clamps will fasten the head to the table during filing which I plan to do next. The key (as I see it) to the reprofiling process will be the axe bit guage printed from the USFS manual as well as the detailed description of the process from thewoodslife blog.

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#269814 - 05/11/14 03:21 AM Re: Follow as I learn during my first axe refurb [Re: kevingg]
chaosmagnet Offline
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Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3840
Loc: USA
I love the pictures. Looking forward to seeing how this goes.

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#269815 - 05/11/14 03:26 AM Re: Follow as I learn during my first axe refurb [Re: kevingg]
CANOEDOGS Offline
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Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1853
Loc: MINNESOTA
thats about the most impressive bit of work i have seen in awhile!

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#269817 - 05/11/14 04:26 AM Re: Follow as I learn during my first axe refurb [Re: kevingg]
leemann Offline
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Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 623
Loc: At the soylent green plant.
Nice work cant wait.
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#269823 - 05/11/14 02:11 PM Re: Follow as I learn during my first axe refurb [Re: kevingg]
Teslinhiker Offline
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Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 1419
Loc: Nothern Ontario
Great work and craftsmanship Kevin. Reading your post and seeing the pictures gives me some incentive to cleanup an old ax and saw that I have been meaning to work on for a few years now.
_________________________
Earth and sky, woods and fields, lakes and rivers, the mountain and the sea, are excellent schoolmasters, and teach some of us more than we can ever learn from books.

John Lubbock

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#269846 - 05/12/14 05:07 PM Re: Follow as I learn during my first axe refurb [Re: kevingg]
kevingg Offline
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Registered: 10/21/05
Posts: 442
Loc: NH
Thanks friends! I've got some serious file work ahead to get the profile correct. I'll be posting what I learned in that next!

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#269874 - 05/13/14 06:32 PM Re: Follow as I learn during my first axe refurb [Re: kevingg]
kevingg Offline
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Registered: 10/21/05
Posts: 442
Loc: NH
With the detailed articles from USFS and Woodslife on my mind, I setup my work area for filing the bit and cheek to match the bit gauge. I’m working with an improvised work area, so I used a couple clamps and an oak scrap to fasten the head to the table. I sketched a number of lines on the bit and cheek with a fine tipped sharpie as you can see below. First, from about 2” from the blade and out to the toe and heel of the blade I sketched the “half-moon” shape referred to by USFS as the zone that will get filed when rehabbing an axe head. I also marked with a dashed line where the USFS edge gauge “hits” the bit (ie. where initial thinning is needed). In the Axe to Grind video, USFS demonstrates a filing motion that generally begins at the edge then follows the convex towards the cheek (while maintaining file direction straight towards poll not at an angle to it). He shows how the gauge is used to identify where the cheek needs to be thinned. The video does not go into detail with regard to the differences in technique when “sharpening” vs. re-profiling. This is the main difference in the Woodslife blog, where the author separates the processes and “zones” of cheek re-profiling vs. convex bit sharpening (both zones to be seamlessly transitioned eventually). He generally sets the boundary between the two areas at ½” from the edge. For this reason I marked the point ½” from the edge with the Sharpie (see photo). You can see that it’s very close to the dashed line. Since I seek to match the edge gauge, I will target the dashed line while keeping the ½” line in mind!

With these guide lines drawn, I set the file on the head as shown below in the orientation demonstrated by USFS. The file is touching at the dashed line where I will be removing material, and just about hits the cheek ALSO at the eye (see photo below). For this reason I decided to wrap the head in tape to protect this area before filing.

Even so, it will be difficult to use the full length of the file if I maintain the straight direction because the end will be running into this area. LESSON learned – better to do all this before sanding the head to the desired finish (mirror in this case!). Another thing this exercise demonstrates to me – there is obvious merit in the Woodslife article’s recommendation to also include angular file directions to remove cheek metal (best seen as the yellow and blue arrows on the next two photos). Of course this now brings the clamps into play as obstacles. May need a longer piece of wood through the eye to get clamps out of the way!

I spent a few moments lightly running the file last night. It quickly became apparent that I was not obtaining the “half-moon” shaped described by USFS. Rather than blindly filing away, I decided to stop and take stock. After all, you can always remove more steel but you can’t put it back on, right? I could see the makings of the fan shape it on the Heel, but not really the Toe. I pulled out my Collins Double Bit in order to study it, since it is the same style axe head being refurbished in the USFS video. It was immediately apparent that the symmetry and contour of the cheek would indeed lend itself to the formation of the half-moon shape upon filing (see photo below). The picture is worth a thousand words, but essentially the green line represents the ridge that would form from filing due to the “low” areas on each side of the centerline from bit to poll.

Now the contours of the top face of the Council are quite different. In the photo below, the blue arrows on the heel side of the head show the “downward” slope of the cheek from my fan sharpie line. This side is forming more of the fan shape during filing which is logical based on my study of the Collins. The Toe side of the head does not slope symmetrically away from the line, like it did on the Collins. As a result, the symmetrical half-moon is not forming. Now I ask myself if it matters AND I immediately answer myself I think not! I believe the statement in the USFS video about the desired half-moon shape applies to the double bit head he was working on; and may as well for other designs just not mine. I just think it’s more of a general concept than an absolute truth. I’m going back to the effort, focusing on filing to get that bit to fit the gauge and less on trying to force the “half-moon” shape.

Please forgive me if you find these minutia or my project’s pace annoying, I don’t have the benefit of a mentor in these ways. If I had someone right there in person I’d have asked a few pointed questions at the right time and moved on with it!

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#269877 - 05/13/14 08:28 PM Re: Follow as I learn during my first axe refurb [Re: kevingg]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
Why not use some kind of grinder for initial metal removal, and then do the finer finish work with a hand file, followed by sanding? It seems like a bench grinder (or even an angle grinder) and a belt sander would be handy for this project.

I'm not proposing this, I am asking "why not?" I am not a machinist.

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#269879 - 05/13/14 08:37 PM Re: Follow as I learn during my first axe refurb [Re: haertig]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3840
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: haertig
Why not use some kind of grinder for initial metal removal, and then do the finer finish work with a hand file, followed by sanding? It seems like a bench grinder (or even an angle grinder) and a belt sander would be handy for this project.


I don't know if I'm right, but I would be concerned that using a grinder might have a negative effect on the heat treatment. Someone more knowledgeable than myself would have to tell me that a grinder was acceptable before I would use it.

There are wet grinders that take the heat away from the workpiece, and I'd be much less reluctant to use one of them, at least if I knew what I was doing.

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#269882 - 05/13/14 09:32 PM Re: Follow as I learn during my first axe refurb [Re: chaosmagnet]
haertig Offline
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Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
Good point. I was assuming you could turn the speed down on a bench grinder (I don't have one myself to know yes/no). Heat could definitely destroy temper in some metals (I'm thinking spring steel). I don't know about something solid like an ax head. I remember grinding a "waist" in a flat spring from one of my firearms to lighten it's springiness (the loading gate spring from a lever action rifle) - I was grinding that with a Dremel tool and holding the piece in my hand, not in a vise or with pliers. As soon as I felt any warmth (only took a few seconds to develop), I would dunk the piece in a cup of water to cool it. I was worried about ruining the temper of the spring. Same thing may go for an ax head, but since it's not a spring, I don't really know.

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#269886 - 05/14/14 12:04 AM Re: Follow as I learn during my first axe refurb [Re: kevingg]
kevingg Offline
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Registered: 10/21/05
Posts: 442
Loc: NH
Indeed destruction of temper is why grinder is never recommended. Belt sander can work but I don't have one!

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#269888 - 05/14/14 12:22 AM Re: Follow as I learn during my first axe refurb [Re: haertig]
chaosmagnet Offline
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Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3840
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: haertig
Good point. I was assuming you could turn the speed down on a bench grinder (I don't have one myself to know yes/no).


I've never seen a bench grinder that could turn the speed down enough to not potentially cause heat issues. The variable speed bench grinders I've seen go from "crazy fast" to "MWAH HAH HAH HAH!"

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#269898 - 05/14/14 04:20 AM Re: Follow as I learn during my first axe refurb [Re: kevingg]
Phaedrus Offline
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Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3162
Loc: Big Sky Country
I don't know how I'd live my life without my Kalamazoo 1" x 42" belt sander!
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#269916 - 05/14/14 04:46 PM Re: Follow as I learn during my first axe refurb [Re: kevingg]
JerryFountain Offline
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Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 418
Loc: St. Petersburg, Florida
NEVER use a bench grinder on an axe. Axes (at least good ones) are differentially tempered (soft head - harder edge) and are easily subject to damage by heating. Use a file and stone, an old pedal powered wheel (often used with water), a wet wheel grinder (good ones are now available) or a square wheel grinder (like a belt sander but slower). A belt sander works well if you can slow it down or work bare handed and keep the head cool.

The "fan" works well on a Dayton pattern head, like the double bit you used. As you figured out, it does not work on all head patterns, but the idea is there, the cheeks need to taper up smoothly. For many years axe heads were made with extra meat in the cheeks to allow each owner to cut it to his use. Many old axes were never cut down and are far to thick for anything but splitting. The USFS information does not say so but they are cutting the head for dry, South Eastern hardwoods(IIRC). It is a good general grind, but not universal. My Gransfors Bruks Forest Axe is designed for green conifers and has a different cheek shape (deeper and more narrow). It is unfortunate that guides are not available (that I know of) for various purposes.

Respectfully,

Jerry

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#269960 - 05/15/14 02:35 PM Re: Follow as I learn during my first axe refurb [Re: JerryFountain]
kevingg Offline
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Registered: 10/21/05
Posts: 442
Loc: NH
Thanks for the insight. I scoured the web for "to scale" guides for other purposes. I have continued to file exactly as you described - to thin by creating a smooth transition. More photos soon!

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#269961 - 05/15/14 02:57 PM Re: Follow as I learn during my first axe refurb [Re: kevingg]
JerryFountain Offline
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Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 418
Loc: St. Petersburg, Florida
Kevin,

I have never seen a guide for other uses, only seen (and felt) the results from axe men who knew their stuff. I did lumbering in the Rockies and the old guys could show you a lot. Their work is similar to what I see from Gransfors. Maybe I should make one off my axe before I ever sharpen it.

Looks like you are doing a great job. What I would expect from your other work. Thanks for the pictures.

Respectfully,

Jerry

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#269962 - 05/15/14 03:11 PM Re: Follow as I learn during my first axe refurb [Re: JerryFountain]
Russ Offline
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Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
As I recall some double-bit axes have different profiles on the two edges, one being thinner for different cutting requirements. My favorite axe is a double-bit cruiser. It's an older axe with good steel and a harder edge than you find on many of the current axes. Just don't hit any rocks. I have and older axe hear with a big chip from hitting something not intended. Those harder edges will chip out.

/cruiser/ No affiliation, just a good write-up re Double-bit Cruisers.

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#269964 - 05/15/14 03:44 PM Re: Follow as I learn during my first axe refurb [Re: kevingg]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
My favorite axe-type tool is a Pulaski-cutting capability together with grubbing capacity. It is a really fabulous tool on the fire line
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#269965 - 05/15/14 04:25 PM Re: Follow as I learn during my first axe refurb [Re: kevingg]
JerryFountain Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 418
Loc: St. Petersburg, Florida
Russ,

It is common for a double bit to have two different profiles, as shown in the USFS book that Kevin got his information from.

The "Cruiser" you posted is not the same as the terminology I learned. My use of cruiser is the same as the definition in yerteryearstools:

cruiser: one who estimates the potential lumber yield from the standing timber on a specific tract of land and may mark out routes for accessing the area. (also: estimator)
cruiser’s axe: a small version of a double bit axe designed to make markings by slashing the bark such as when blazing. (also: timber cruiser’s axe)

See: http://www.yesteryearstools.com./Yesteryears%20Tools/Glossary%3A%20Axes,%20Edge%20Tools,%20etc..html

Typically a 2 to 2.5 lb head on a 27" or 28" handle. They would have been typically ground the same on both sides since it was primarily used for blazing trees for removal. If yours is like this, it is also my favorite axe for most things.

Respectfully,

Jerry

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#269981 - 05/16/14 03:01 AM Re: Follow as I learn during my first axe refurb [Re: kevingg]
kevingg Offline
Addict

Registered: 10/21/05
Posts: 442
Loc: NH
I filed until I sweat, then filed some more. Remind me to put a belt sander on my Christmas list. I have been using the edge guage, marking a few dots along the bit with the sharpie, then filing them out. First straight, then angled one way then angled the other way. Flip axe, mark, repeat. The profile is getting closer to fitting the guage. I also made a few strokes to begin the removal of the secondary bevel and smooth it into the profile. Perhaps another filing session will get me out of profiling and into sharpening. Plenty of new scratches!!

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#269983 - 05/16/14 03:32 AM Re: Follow as I learn during my first axe refurb [Re: kevingg]
CANOEDOGS Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1853
Loc: MINNESOTA

i'm down to the bottom of the post now and have seen all the work you have been doing with gauges and such.it's easy to see why folks just go to the hardware store and get a so-so ax rather than try and fix up a old one.
i look forward to you next photos.

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#269985 - 05/16/14 04:22 AM Re: Follow as I learn during my first axe refurb [Re: CANOEDOGS]
kevingg Offline
Addict

Registered: 10/21/05
Posts: 442
Loc: NH
If I didn't find it fun I definitely wouldn't go through the effort !

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