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#269611 - 05/01/14 06:20 PM Re: Father, 2 young kids missing in SC national park [Re: Russ]
bacpacjac Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3601
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Russ
Sorry, taking small kids in the backcountry without a plan borders on child endangerment; I have no sympathy.


I couldn't agree more!
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#269612 - 05/01/14 06:43 PM Re: Father, 2 young kids missing in SC national park [Re: Russ]
hikermor Offline
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Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Originally Posted By: Russ
-- back to map & compass and the sun, moon & stars. That will not be a good day. [/i]


It won't be a fabulous day, but folks will still be able to find their way home, if they are not hopelessly dependent upon electronics and are schooled in the fundamentals.

I have been using GPS since 1991 and it was truly a great leap forward, but I am glad I was grounded in traditional techniques. I began using a USGS quad map produced in the late 1930's by a team using pack mules, plane table, and alidade - real John Wesley Powell stuff. They showed the trail network very accurately, but the topography was a bit sketchy. I nominate aerial photography as the most important advance in mapping and navigation in the last century.

A GPS will show your location, and it may show your destination, but it won't necessarily show the obstacles and traps that lie between. For that, you need an accurate,detailed map, either paper or electronic.


Edited by hikermor (05/01/14 06:44 PM)
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#269614 - 05/01/14 07:57 PM Re: Father, 2 young kids missing in SC national park [Re: ]
Russ Offline
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Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Yeah, the GPS I use more than others is a Garmin Nuvi, not for the navigation so much as the ETA and traffic routing. I know point A and point B and the roads between, but traffic is fluid and a few times through Los Angeles taught me to believe the GPS when it comes to routing. On a busy I-5/I-405/I-10 day, the Nuvi routed me SE across LA on roads I'd've never chosen to pick up I-15 and all was good. Survival? Nope, convenience.

GPS nav has its negatives, one being folks becoming too reliant on the tech and not being able to function without it. I s'pose that's true of most tech...

As for hiking in the backcountry or large parks, the 10 Essentials are still essential.

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#269619 - 05/01/14 11:16 PM Re: Father, 2 young kids missing in SC national park [Re: ]
Russ Offline
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Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Totally OT: I'll check next time I use the Nuvi, but at least some Garmin GPS receivers have a preferences option where you can specify highways, back roads, shorter time vs shorter distance, et al... It might be under tools, but if your unit only shows you the interstate, somewhere there's a file telling it to ignore back roads. Heck, my first Nuvi routed me off I-5 in Tacoma through city streets and back onto I-5 to avoid traffic. I was still in traffic but probably saved a bit of time.

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#269620 - 05/01/14 11:24 PM Re: Father, 2 young kids missing in SC national park [Re: Russ]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
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Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
A Nuvi is pretty good, but even better is a wife, especially if she is an LA area native. She does exactly what the Nuvi does - telling me where to go, sending me on many an obscure byways and shortcuts. Not only that, she cooks dinner (usually)and helps around the house. Can your Nuvi do that?

Are there blonde and brunette Nuvis?


Edited by hikermor (05/01/14 11:27 PM)
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#269623 - 05/02/14 12:32 AM Re: Father, 2 young kids missing in SC national park [Re: hikermor]
Russ Offline
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Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
LOL -- it won't cook dinner, but if I ignore "her" (female voice) recommendation she doesn't argue or complain, she just recomputes and alters her recommendation to accommodate my wishes. Too bad she doesn't cook or serve beer wink
Wow, serious thread drift
.

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#269641 - 05/04/14 03:44 PM Re: Father, 2 young kids missing in SC national park [Re: hikermor]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2997
Originally Posted By: hikermor
Originally Posted By: Russ
-- back to map & compass and the sun, moon & stars. That will not be a good day. [/i]


It won't be a fabulous day, but folks will still be able to find their way home, if they are not hopelessly dependent upon electronics and are schooled in the fundamentals.



Many ago sitting around a campfire men who navigated before map and compass were complaining about all these people who are hopelessly dependent upon their map and compass and wished they would learn the fundamentals. smile

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#269666 - 05/05/14 04:08 PM Re: Father, 2 young kids missing in SC national park [Re: Eugene]
hikermor Offline
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Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
It is interesting to learn about Polynesian navigation techniques. They found everything in the Pacific without either map or compass - using bird flight, wave patterns, reflections from land in the sky - basically just very good observation of the world around them. Maps and compasses are not infallible.
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#269770 - 05/09/14 05:06 PM Re: Father, 2 young kids missing in SC national park [Re: Glock-A-Roo]
JerryFountain Offline
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Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 418
Loc: St. Petersburg, Florida
Hikermor,

To add a bit, the Polynesians did use maps:

http://www.jaimepappalardo.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/image004.jpg

The one I have is similar.

I have to agree with Eugene, but I believe it is true, we should still learn navigation without map and compass as well. All three (just good observation and understanding, map and compass and GPS) should be understood by those going outdoors. Each step up provides increasing accuracy and information at the cost of depending on devices that can be lost.

In this vein, I have just seen books by Tristan Gooley http://www.naturalnavigator.com/books-and-library including The Natural Navigator. Anyone know anything about him or his books? Thanks!

Respectfully,

Jerry

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#269772 - 05/09/14 05:58 PM Re: Father, 2 young kids missing in SC national park [Re: hikermor]
AKSAR Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: hikermor
It is interesting to learn about Polynesian navigation techniques. They found everything in the Pacific without either map or compass - using bird flight, wave patterns, reflections from land in the sky - basically just very good observation of the world around them. Maps and compasses are not infallible.
Hikermor,

You should take a look at David Burch's books. His "Emergency Navigation" talks about many of these methods.

Anyone doing much sea kayaking (or use skiffs and other small craft) should also check out Burch's "Fundamentals of Kayak Navigation". He has a wonderful coverage of tides, which I have found extremely useful. He covers both traditional (chart, compass, and watch) methods, and also talks about using GPS. An awesome book, in my opinion.
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