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#269683 - 05/05/14 11:17 PM Re: The bacteria are now in the ascendance... [Re: haertig]
nursemike Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 870
Loc: wellington, fl
Originally Posted By: haertig
Drug-resistant bacteria are a well-known issue. I wonder why people continue to buy anti-bacterial hand soap? It doesn't really do anything useful for the purchaser, it's a marketing gimmick, but it helps contribute to resistant strains of bacteria. Such soap might be useful for a surgeon getting ready to stick their hands inside your guts, but for the everyday person, useless. And potentially harmful to the herd in the long term.


not sure that this is true. Antibiotic resistant bacteria are not necessarily resistant to chemical disinfectants like alcohol, triclosan, listerine and clorox. Reducing the bacterial load on hands, raw vegetables, uncooked meats and the environment in general is a good thing, unless you subscribe to the "farm kids are healthier than city kids because they are less sheltered from bacteria and animal dander" school. Any thoughts on this, MDinana, Blast, scientists and wisemen?
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#269684 - 05/05/14 11:29 PM Re: The bacteria are now in the ascendance... [Re: nursemike]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: nursemike
Antibiotic resistant bacteria are not necessarily resistant to chemical disinfectants like alcohol, triclosan, listerine and clorox.

It used to be thought that chemicals that attacked bacteria from multiple fronts would not easily produce resistant bacteria, but that didn't necessarily turn out to be true. This is a 2006 paper but it already mentions triclosan resistant strains. The same metabolic adaptations to disinfectant chemicals can also work against the chemicals in antibiotics in some cases, too.

However, this type of cross-resistance probably evolves much more slowly than the evolutionary pressure of direct exposure to antibiotics produces, so exposure to antibacterial products like soap is probably more of a secondary problem to overuse and misuse of antibiotics themselves.

Switching to virus talk, but along similar lines, the "common wisdom" is that Norovirus, which causes all those sick cruise ship passengers, is pretty much impervious to alcohol (and therefore, alcohol hand sanitizers) but that's still debated.


Edited by Arney (05/05/14 11:35 PM)

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#269686 - 05/06/14 12:53 AM Re: The bacteria are now in the ascendance... [Re: nursemike]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1185
Loc: Channeled Scablands
Originally Posted By: nursemike
[quote=haertig]unless you subscribe to the "farm kids are healthier than city kids because they are less sheltered from bacteria and animal dander" school. Any thoughts on this, MDinana, Blast, scientists and wisemen?


You are supposed to eat a peck of dirt before you die, but not a bushel.

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#269693 - 05/06/14 02:46 AM Re: The bacteria are now in the ascendance... [Re: nursemike]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3842
Loc: USA
I let my kids roll in dirt but I make them wash up before meals.

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#269696 - 05/06/14 04:24 AM Re: The bacteria are now in the ascendance... [Re: AKSAR]
Denis Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 631
Loc: Calgary, AB
Originally Posted By: AKSAR
EDIT: Deleted Doonesbury link to avoid offending anyone. smile

No offence was taken ... just making an observation smile.
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Victory awaits him who has everything in order — luck, people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck. Roald Amundsen

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#269743 - 05/08/14 03:48 AM Re: The bacteria are now in the ascendance... [Re: nursemike]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3760
Loc: TX
Quote:
not sure that this is true. Antibiotic resistant bacteria are not necessarily resistant to chemical disinfectants like alcohol, triclosan, listerine and clorox. Reducing the bacterial load on hands, raw vegetables, uncooked meats and the environment in general is a good thing, unless you subscribe to the "farm kids are healthier than city kids because they are less sheltered from bacteria and animal dander" school. Any thoughts on this, MDinana, Blast, scientists and wisemen?


Bacteria can develop some resistance to alcohol, triclosan, listerine, etc... Each individual bacteria has a different susceptibility to these chemicals, some having higher, some lower. Most people don't follow the directions for using this these cleaners, often just giving a sloppy, quick wipe so the dosage the bugs get can be lower than needed to kill the "strongest" bacteria. These survivors reproduce...

As for needing to be exposed to a bacteria to build up a strong immune system, I firmly believe this to be true. Some studies I've looked at recently tie the higher occurrence of Lupus in females (x9 than males) may be due to girls aren't allowed to play in the dirt as much as boys.
-Blast
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#269744 - 05/08/14 04:21 AM Re: The bacteria are now in the ascendance... [Re: nursemike]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Sterilize your water, wash your hands regularly, keep away from rats and people (the usual vector) i.e. places such as restaurants and hospitals, keep fit and healthy and well nourished and if all else fails there is always the catchy great plague song

The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse don't usually turn up at the same time they appear sequentially after those that precede them attempt to do their worst. Keep the Grim Reaper away. Don't eat the Salmon Mousse. Try not to be poor (the greatest actuary to premature death).





Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (05/08/14 04:21 AM)

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#269768 - 05/09/14 02:32 PM Re: The bacteria are now in the ascendance... [Re: chaosmagnet]
nursetim Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/29/06
Posts: 41
Loc: the last bastion of PHRASECENS...
Originally Posted By: chaosmagnet
I let my kids roll in dirt but I make them wash up before meals.


As children my sisters and I used to play on a huge horse manure tip. We'd roll down it. I'm still alive, at least I think I am.
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Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

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#269782 - 05/10/14 12:22 AM Re: The bacteria are now in the ascendance... [Re: Blast]
nursemike Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 870
Loc: wellington, fl
Originally Posted By: Blast
Quote:
not sure that this is true. Antibiotic resistant bacteria are not necessarily resistant to chemical disinfectants like alcohol, triclosan, listerine and clorox. Reducing the bacterial load on hands, raw vegetables, uncooked meats and the environment in general is a good thing, unless you subscribe to the "farm kids are healthier than city kids because they are less sheltered from bacteria and animal dander" school. Any thoughts on this, MDinana, Blast, scientists and wisemen?


Bacteria can develop some resistance to alcohol, triclosan, listerine, etc... Each individual bacteria has a different susceptibility to these chemicals, some having higher, some lower. Most people don't follow the directions for using this these cleaners, often just giving a sloppy, quick wipe so the dosage the bugs get can be lower than needed to kill the "strongest" bacteria. These survivors reproduce...

As for needing to be exposed to a bacteria to build up a strong immune system, I firmly believe this to be true. Some studies I've looked at recently tie the higher occurrence of Lupus in females (x9 than males) may be due to girls aren't allowed to play in the dirt as much as boys.
-Blast


Intestinal parasites may be useful pets, too: pig parasites for treatment of ms
_________________________
Dance like you have never been hurt, work like no one is watching,love like you don't need the money.

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