Okay, my cellphone contract anniversary is coming up this month and I'm seriously considering going back to a "dumb" basic phone. The dumb phone isn't the issue, but my question is how useful are the apps on an Apple 4S without the cell network? I can use it to surf if I find a wifi hotspot, but will the navigation apps work without the cell network AGPS? Any other issues to consider good or bad are appreciated. TIA

The navigation software you have to buy separately will work, the one comes with phone won't.

Without AGPS your GPS lock time will go from 10 or 20 seconds to up to 5 minutes, but will work the same otherwise.

Maybe I'm not understanding the question, as my phone is an Android S3.

The GPS works without the network because it gets the signals directly from the Satellites. To see that location on a map, you either need a network connection to download the map or you need a map for the area already downloaded and stored on the phone. I think the "AGPS" gets some, but not all, of the location information from the network. Straight GPS can give you a good location.

So, no, my phone does not need the network to get a location, as long as I have maps downloaded onto the phone.

There are a lot of free apps out there--I think there was a thread a while back on which were the best...

Are Apple products different?

Yes, I think they are. Some of the Android phones have GPS separate from the network, the iPhone needs the network enabled. When I try to use any of the apps I have that will show lat & long, they don't function if the iPhone is in Airplane Mode. I guess the real question is will enabling the network allow the GPS function to work even if the phone has no access to the cell network. It will supposedly still work for 9-1-1 calls so...

In the backcountry the GPS function uses lots of battery because the phone is constantly looking for a cell signal. Some Androids don't have that problem.

I believe that is true only for the "time to first fix" at a new location (a long ways from the last place you used it). As I understand it, any GPS needs "almanac" and "ephemaris" data to function. This is the data that tells the GPS where to look for satellites and enables the GPS to calculate your location from those satellites. Which satellites are available depends where you are on the surface of the world. The satelillites constantly broadcast this data, but it is slow to download. Your stand alone GPS stores the data for your current area. If you turn off your GPS, then travel a few hundred miles and turn it back on, it takes some time to download the new data, and this slows the first fix. With AGPS your cell phone first tries to grab that data off the cell network, and that speeds up that first fix.

Putting your iPhone into Airplane mode also turns off the GPS. In normal mode your iPhone GPS will still work fine without access to a cell network. However your mapping functions will not work without the network, unless you have downloaded and stored the maps on the phone. The ability to do that depends on the app.


EDIT - Regarding iPhones, GPS, and airplane mode, see the Apple Support Pages note iOS: Understanding airplane mode:

Thanks, that's what I was forgetting, iPhone turns off the GPS receiver in Airplane mode -- dopey me. I have maps downloaded and one of the location apps is "Tom's GPS" which gives a Lat-Long and UTM read-out so you can find yourself on a paper map.

So will an iPhone without an associated service contract search for a cell network when not in Airplane Mode? I'll put that Q to the good folk at Verizon.

The dumb-phone I'm probably going to get may or may not have GPS. The pdf manual mentions GPS and AGPS in general, but not specifically for that model phone. Mostly I'm getting it for the "phone" function. It's ruggedized to mil spec for dust, shock and heat.

You're mistaken, sir. Apple devices that have GPS receivers do not need data service (wifi or cellular) to get a GPS fix, although they can get a faster and more precise fix when wifi is turned on using aGPS. Apple devices turn off all the radios, including the GPS receivers, in Airplane mode (although the wifi can be turned on in Airplane mode). My understanding is that GPS receivers are not permitted to be used on an aircraft in flight if they aren't FAA certificated.

The built-in mapping app doesn't have the capability to download maps, so you need a third-party app if you want mapping capability when not connected to the Internet.

With the SIM removed, no.

I may have used the wrong terminology. When I said the network needs to be enabled, what I meant was the phone can't be in Airplane Mode. This has nothing to do with the data service, internet or wifi, although the phone wants wifi enabled too.

I just don't understand the need to turn off the GPS receiver in Airplane Mode. I know of a number of aircraft with built in FAA certified GPS systems in which the pilots bring their personal Garmin receivers because the maps are better. There is no interference with the aircraft avionics.

There is no technical reason I know of that it's necessary, but it is, I understand, the law.

Sim? Do Verizon iPhones have sim cards?

Just checked and it appears that Verizon 4G devices use sim cards but my old archaic iPhone 4S is only 3G, no sim card. Still, I'm sure the cellphone function will be deactivated. On that note, how does it call 9-1-1? Is that a separate function?

Federal law mandates that all cellphones be capable of calling 911, with or without service, and with or without a SIM.

I'm not 100% certain, but I believe that without a SIM the iPhone will not turn on the cellular radio or attempt to find a tower, unless 911 is dialed. This is borne out by my experience with a couple of old iPhones turned over to my recombinant DNA after the SIMs were removed.

Regardless, this upgrade should give me a cellphone that's primarily a phone and an iPhone that is like an iPod but with GPS and an ability to call 9-1-1. Thanks for the assist.

All righty then, my phone downgrade is complete. The iPhone is still capable of 9-1-1 but now my primary phone is one of the ruggedized models. It being a basic phone it could only manage a 16GB microSD card, but then my iPhone was the 16GB model so no loss in memory for pics and mp3.

Next I'll take what was an iPhone and is now more of an enhanced iPod and see how well location services works. I have a sneaky suspicion the phone still connects (PING) and is visible to the network, it just can't make or receive calls because the number is now assigned to a different unit. I think, maybe, not really sure how that works.

Edit: Location works great. The app "Tom's GPS" came up with an accurate Lat-Long within seconds and the Maps app was also dead-on. As for signal strength, the phone is seeing the network, 3 out of 5 Bars, so despite it not having service associated, it can still ping just fine.

I have my issued phone and a very cheap phone for my own personal use. It says it can handle up to an 8 gb micro sd chip. I have a 64 gb in it, almost full of stuff and it works fine, sometimes a bit slow, but has never frozen up. You may be able to go much higher.

LOL with this phone I'll be years filling a 4GB card let alone the 16 that's in it. Probably didn't need a card at all, but the empty slot needed to be filled. That, and 16GB microSD cards are much cheaper than 64's.

true, they are cheaper. I carry everything on my chip in case I have to bug out. music, photos, documents, medical history, photos, favorite books and stories, insurance, ID, banking, house hold inventory etc etc etc. All in neat little folders in a locked vault. I have the same on flash drive and in another micro sd sewn into the collar of a light fleece jacket I can use for layering or pretty much year round. So no matter where or how I'm evac'd I at least have the important information with me. The little woman does the same with her phone.

Problem I've found as of late is that since there is very little market for non-smart phones there are no good quality non-smart phones. I haven't found a 'dumb' phone which gets as good as reception as my smartphone. If only I could turn off the data plan and just use wifi when its available I could just use the smartphone as a dumb phone with pda capabilities. I've used a PDA since the 90's but finally gave in t a smart phone a few years ago to combine two devices into one.

you might want to look at ZACT, or TING...
Both are sprint resellers- You buy the service that you want.

I am not currently using, reselling, or making money from them.
I am looking at them for my kids, when they get a year or 3 older (oldest is 9, NOT buying a cell plan for a 9 year old.)

You would be limited on phones, but could shape rates to your needs.

***going sideways for moment***
I bought a CHEAP CHEAP android phone- ZTE AWE- for 9 year old.
On Black Friday I picked it up for 19.00, no rebate.
Santa gave it to him as a game player/music player/camera.

With no plan, only place it can call is 911.

For $19.00, it was 200 cheaper than an IPOD.

***sideways done***

I went with one of the ruggedized phones (Samsung Convoy, no affiliation) in an effort to get a better build quality. It's a solid phone and reception seems to be as good as my iPhone.

Unfortunately, although it theoretically can handle email, text and web browsing, its keyboard is virtually non-existent and some characters required for my password seem to be missing so I can't even log in. The screen is small so even if it did have a great browser, reading web pages would be close to impossible. I'll give it a bit more time, then if it still doesn't work for me the Convoy will go into my GHB as a 9-1-1 back-up and I'll pay an extra $10 to bring the iPhone back as primary.

I do like some attributes of the Convoy though -- small and lightweight it carries much easier than a smartphone and is really good with battery power. Every port on the phone has a seal to keep out dust, and I'm sure it can handle rough use. It is not rated as waterproof, but the dust seals should help a bit -- light rain maybe, definitely not submerged.

Comparing reception to the iphone isn't saying much though as the iphone is not well known for good reception.

I'm trying to keep reception in the hills on WV which limits me to higher quality phones and Verizon. I had a regular Samsung dumb phone prior to Smartphones and all the smartphones I've had get better reception than the Samsung did.

My last dumb phone was a Motorola with an antenna that extended -- great reception. It's been downhill ever since.

My current Droid RAZR is about equivalent to those old Motorolas (StarTac). I would loose signal about the last /14 mile before my parents farm or gain it back about half way up the mountain. Other dumb phones in between lost the signal a mile or so before their house .Their house is a mile up a valley or hollar to use native terminology. Sprint AS&S all loose signal just outside of town (6 miles away) Verizon roaming on whoever is local can get a signal a lot better. Then low quality smartphones like LG's and iphones loose signal about halfway to town.