I suspect that a 17 lb pack meets a govt spec of being capable of being dropped 30' from a hovering helicopter while containing a full combat load and not rupturing.

That's mil-spec for you.....

As an aside, although the gear has changed drastically, the average weight carried by the average grunt has not changed since the days of the Roman legion.

Food is lighter, you carry more meals. The weapon is made lighter; add sights, flashlights, forward handles. You ditch one piece of gear as outdated, to be handed two more pieces of gear now designated as important must be carried.

As a grunt I carried what I had to, substituted where I could, and made do without to save weight.

Making a soldier tote more load to make up for poor planning, lousy logistics, and inadequate resupply in this day and age makes no sense.

We fight battles using the latest technology and strategies that were proven obsolete during World War 2.

Command is at least 50 years behind the times.

FIBLE Bergen - 17 lbs

3 days of MREs (3 per day) - 13.9 lbs

3 Litres of water - 6.6 lbs

MSS 4 Part sleep system - 10 lbs

Total already - 47.5 lbs

USMC Marines won't be walking very far, very fast.
Going back to an ALICE pack external frame way of thinking seems to be a retrograde step over the more robust and lighter ILBE pack that preceded it.

JBMat makes an excellent point.That is exactly the reason why PSK's evolved in my opinion.I think it is also the reason geurilla fighters and rebels run circles around a "proper" army.They do not follow this dogma.Fast and light,hit and run worked for us during the American revolution.Bureaucracy NEVER learns.....

BOATMAN
John

Always the rear echelon types that come up with these "new and improved" versions of tried and true. They never seem to realize the most desirable characteristics of combat/patrol innovations. That's also how you end up with a sub-MBR with "made by Mattel" stamped on the side of it.

It is really easy and a lot of fun to diss the military, and they, being human, will screw up and miss the boat. But, where would 4WD be without the WWII Willys Jeep? What would you shoot game with if it weren't for the 30-06? We would still be flying biplanes if it weren't for military R&D. You can go on and on with examples.....computers, for instance.

The civilian sector is about to get hold of military developed drone technology and that is going to revolutionize a lot of activities (like SAR, as we are discussing in another thread).

Just could not restrain myself on this one. Boatman, you have a very limited and superficial understanding of military history and warfare. Guerrillas do not "run circles" around a proper army, the proper army is defeated by political means, not by force. The American revolution was not primarily fought by using guerrilla tactics, although this was successful in the South and at times in the beginning, the American rebels primarily used conventional warfare to fight the British.

Another major factor in our Revolution's success was the involvement of the French and Spanish. Yorktown would never have happened without a French naval victory.

In an agrarian society, guerrillas are fine except at planting and harvest time. We had some problems there. And we had home field advantage. The British had a long supply and logistics line to maintain. There was also a certain amount of sympathy for the American cause back in Merrie England.

In many ways, the U.S. Revolution was the first and maybe the prototype for later "wars of national liberation."

What started as a military conflict between often poorly trained rebel militia aka guerrillas, morphed into a well trained and equipped (then) modern Army.

For much of the War, the rebels could dominate the countryside, while the British dominated the ports and cities.

For reasons of their own, the French chose to help equip the US rebels with up to date arms and ammo.

European military "advisors" appeared to help train and lead the rebels: e.g. Von Steuben (the first Inspector General) helped train Washington's Army in European tactics and helped adapt them to the local Environment; Kościuszko is often credited with being the "father" of the US Army Engineers. There were others.

At Yorktown, there were about 8000 French troops on the ground; without them, (and their 29 ships offshore keeping the Royal Navy away), a rebel victory would have been in doubt.

The take away is that guerrillas can deny a conventional army "victory", but can only achieve victory if it can 1) develop or obtain sufficient conventional force to defeat the enemy at their own game or 2) frustrate and demoralize the enemy for a sufficient period of time that they "give up."

Reportedly, both Mao and Giap studied the American Revolution's military history....

Sorry for the hijack of the thread. . .