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#266220 - 12/31/13 02:53 PM Re: CrowdSourcing SAR Searches [Re: AKSAR]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
"Lots of potential uses besides military ones." (AKSAR)

This is certainly an emerging technology of immense promise and problems in everyday life. I am intrigued by the possibilities for archaeological and paleontological work. Of course we have been using drones, of a slightly different type, in civilian life for years.


Edited by hikermor (12/31/13 03:48 PM)
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#266226 - 12/31/13 07:42 PM Re: CrowdSourcing SAR Searches [Re: hikermor]
unimogbert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 882
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: hikermor
Of course we have been using drones, of a slightly different type, in civilian life for years.


I really wish you wouldn't call that to people's attention.
I'm somewhat embarrassed at what I've become.....and my co-workers seem to be completely unaware.....


The proliferation of UAVs may well be the death of civilian aviation. Lightplanes can't take bird strikes very well so a 4lb battery pack thru the windshield will be even worse.

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#266228 - 12/31/13 08:25 PM Re: CrowdSourcing SAR Searches [Re: unimogbert]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Don't worry about it, Amazon will carry plenty of insurance... wink
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Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#266230 - 12/31/13 08:55 PM Re: CrowdSourcing SAR Searches [Re: benjammin]
AKSAR Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: benjammin
Now there's something I would be all too happy to help develop. Wonder if anyone's out there I could contract with.
Originally Posted By: hikermor
"Lots of potential uses besides military ones." (AKSAR)
This is certainly an emerging technology of immense promise and problems in everyday life. I am intrigued by the possibilities for archaeological and paleontological work. Of course we have been using drones, of a slightly different type, in civilian life for years.
Originally Posted By: unimogbert
Originally Posted By: hikermor
Of course we have been using drones, of a slightly different type, in civilian life for years.
The proliferation of UAVs may well be the death of civilian aviation. Lightplanes can't take bird strikes very well so a 4lb battery pack thru the windshield will be even worse.

From this morning's Anchorage Daily News: Expanded drone testing for commercial use another Alaska aviation first

Ben, looks like University of Alaska at Fairbanks is who you want to talk to:
Quote:
The Alaska-based program will be managed by the University of Alaska, which called its 13 planned test ranges the "Pan-Pacific Unmanned Aircraft Systems Test Range Complex." It includes six flight ranges in Alaska, four in Hawaii and three in Oregon and is set to begin operating in mid-2014, the university said.

Hikermor, regarding your comments:
Quote:
Whether drones are to be used for delivering cargo to the Bush or scouting sea ice off the Arctic coast ahead of offshore drilling, there are many things the unmanned aircraft can do safer and cheaper than their pilot-carrying counterparts, their proponents say.

Regarding safety, unimogbert:
Quote:
Key questions the FAA wants answered include how the drones will sense other aircraft and obstacles and avoid them, what types of controls a pilot on the ground will have, how they will maintain control of the aircraft, and what happens if that link is lost. The FAA must also have standards for the airworthiness of specific aircraft designs and how their operators will interact with air traffic controllers, FAA officials said.

The next few years should be very interesting.
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"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
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#266231 - 12/31/13 09:06 PM Re: CrowdSourcing SAR Searches [Re: Teslinhiker]
Pete Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1372
"It would be different if you had a system where you relay real time, high resolution video to several trained, rested,alert observers sitting in a comfortable environment."

that may be the breakthrough. if we could get good drones with HD video over the rescue area, it could dramatically improve the search coverage. BUT it would need good observers to sit in a comfortable location and scan the HD video with careful eyes. There is no reason why "volunteer observers" couldn't do this from the comfort of their own homes. That kind of multiplication of human resources makes a lot of sense.

I will be building and improving drones this year. It will take time to get a good drone for SAR, but not impossible. Im sure there other aircraft that are also suitable for the task.

It is true that drones pose a risk to light aviation. They need to be flown low (lower than 400 feet above ground level). There are new restrictions on their use coming from the FAA in the next year or two. It really boils down to "professional" use of the drones. Like any other tool, you can use them well or abuse them.

Pete

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#266233 - 12/31/13 10:55 PM Re: CrowdSourcing SAR Searches [Re: Pete]
Teslinhiker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 1419
Loc: Nothern Ontario
Originally Posted By: Pete


I will be building and improving drones this year. It will take time to get a good drone for SAR, but not impossible. Im sure there other aircraft that are also suitable for the task.
Pete


Not sure what your engineering and flight systems background is for building drones so you might want to check out either the Walkera QR X350 or the DJI Phantom quadcopters. These consumer level "drones" are actually quite functional for the price. In fact, I have been thinking for a while to get the Phantom for our GoPro2 camera as having flight video of some of our adventures is appealing.

There a plenty of videos on YouTube of both quacopters that demonstrate their functionality. Also there a lot people who mod these for even better functionality which can be found with a Google search.
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Earth and sky, woods and fields, lakes and rivers, the mountain and the sea, are excellent schoolmasters, and teach some of us more than we can ever learn from books.

John Lubbock

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#266236 - 12/31/13 11:22 PM Re: CrowdSourcing SAR Searches [Re: Teslinhiker]
Pete Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1372
Yes I will be one more person developing drones. :-)
I have uses for the drones, so it's a definite area of activity for me.

The DJI copters are pretty nice. Flight time is better than average, and flight controls are supposedly good ( but I have not flown one myself). The main drawbacks are that the signal strength limits the DJI unit to about 300 feet range. Also, some users have had "fly always" with the DJI's. Meaning the unit went up into the sky, and didn't automatically fly back when commanded to do so. So your $1000 drone is gone ... Just gone. Not all these problems were operator error, so there are some bugs in the system that they are still working out. Just the same the DJI's are pretty nice. :-)

Good luck,
Pete


Edited by Pete (12/31/13 11:24 PM)

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#266237 - 12/31/13 11:31 PM Re: CrowdSourcing SAR Searches [Re: Teslinhiker]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Very nice -- the DJI Phantom w/ GoPro would seem to be a good contender for an airborne scout. Would the "Phantom 2 Vision with 14MP Video Camera" (amazon.com -- see comparison chart down the page ) be a better option for SAR?
Quote:
Includes 14MP/1080p video camera with Wi-Fi streaming and microSD recording
Streaming WiFi while airborne would have its advantages over record/playback. A bit more money but that would be a great capability. YMMV

I like that it returns to start point if control signal is lost.

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#266238 - 12/31/13 11:55 PM Re: CrowdSourcing SAR Searches [Re: Pete]
Teslinhiker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 1419
Loc: Nothern Ontario
Originally Posted By: Pete
Yes I will be one more person developing drones. :-)
I have uses for the drones, so it's a definite area of activity for me.

The DJI copters are pretty nice. Flight time is better than average, and flight controls are supposedly good ( but I have not flown one myself). The main drawbacks are that the signal strength limits the DJI unit to about 300 feet range. Also, some users have had "fly always" with the DJI's. Meaning the unit went up into the sky, and didn't automatically fly back when commanded to do so. So your $1000 drone is gone ... Just gone. Not all these problems were operator error, so there are some bugs in the system that they are still working out. Just the same the DJI's are pretty nice. :-)


I have been researching these quadcopters for quite awhile. The range is about 300 meters (984 feet)...not 300 feet.

In the case of the original Phantom, many of the fly away problems were caused by 2.4GHz wifi signals in urban settings interfering with the Phantom flight controls. For my use, this would be a non-issue as I have no plans to buzz around the neighborhood airspace. On the other hand, a majority of fly away problems can be attributed to user error. This very much echoes the same real world of aviation; no matter how much technology any flight aircraft has, it cannot always account for, nor fix user error.
_________________________
Earth and sky, woods and fields, lakes and rivers, the mountain and the sea, are excellent schoolmasters, and teach some of us more than we can ever learn from books.

John Lubbock

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#266239 - 01/01/14 12:00 AM Re: CrowdSourcing SAR Searches [Re: Russ]
Teslinhiker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 1419
Loc: Nothern Ontario
Originally Posted By: Russ
Very nice -- the DJI Phantom w/ GoPro would seem to be a good contender for an airborne scout. Would the "Phantom 2 Vision with 14MP Video Camera" (amazon.com -- see comparison chart down the page ) be a better option for SAR?
Quote:
Includes 14MP/1080p video camera with Wi-Fi streaming and microSD recording
Streaming WiFi while airborne would have its advantages over record/playback. A bit more money but that would be a great capability. YMMV

I like that it returns to start point if control signal is lost.


I researched this model also. I will have to see if and when I purchase the original Phantom if my flying skills are good enough. I can barely handle wrecking a $500.00 quadcopter but $1100.00 is a different story...
_________________________
Earth and sky, woods and fields, lakes and rivers, the mountain and the sea, are excellent schoolmasters, and teach some of us more than we can ever learn from books.

John Lubbock

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