The coleman is a good scout bag, for when the Tenderfoot bedding down next to your son spills cocoa or walks across all the sleeping bags with muddy shoes to retrieve his toothbrush, or for when they pitch a tent in a hollow-soon to be bathtub. Just make sure his pack is large enough to hold it. Having bulky gear is just part of doing business as a scout. Use double sleeping pads in winter as mentioned.

The synth over bag, down bag, vbl is my fave for multi-day winter, but having that cheap coleman is still useful for car camps, river trips, as a loaner etc.

Anyone in the US ordered from MEC/Canada? What kind of customs cost was there?

" I have a -7 C (~20F) down mummy bag, but for winter add a synthetic overbag (MEC Penguin Overbag) which adds 5 to 10 degrees C to the system getting me down to around -12 to -17 (~ 10 to 1 F). The other advantage of the overbag is that it protects the down inner bag from condensation."

While I can't fault the logic of recommending a synthetic bag for this purpose, for my own son I bought a -12 down bag (~1.6 kg, 10.3 L packed ... it's 575 duck down) and he's used it succesfully thus far (though he's no longer in Scouts). My daughter has a -20 hybrid which is an interesting combination of down & synthetic fill (~2.2 kg, 15.4 L packed) ... its still really big for my likings but Mom insisted on a -20 bag (but I don't have a good compression sack for it either). Both options run a bit over $200 (the linked bags are updated versions so the numbers might be a bit off for what we actually have).

If you were in Canada, I'd recommend a MEC bag without hesitation; I think they are a great value.

Actually in the video SgtFruitcake was demonstrating a Snugpak Osprey 12 (weighs 2 Kg) and has a Comfort rating of -10C (EN13537 Specification) The Osprey is a top end Synthetic bag not a down bag. It is also issued to Royal Marine Commandos for Norwegian Arctic Operations. The bag will typically cost between £100-130.

A Snugpak Expanda winter panel will add another 0.6Kg.

The Snugpak Bivi bag cover is waterproof a Hydro Static Head in Excess of 5000mm (Goretex I think is rated to 10,000mmm). The Snugpak bivi bag cover is also breathable (will transmit upto 7.5 litres of moisture per m2 per 24 hours (Goretex being slightly better depending on the specific fabric). It is not a vapour barrier product. The Snugpak Bivi bag weighs around 400gm, i.e. less than half the weight of a military Goretex bag. I am not sure that is currently military issue though.

The silk liner a bivi cover will probably add another 5 degree Celsius. A Thermolite Reactor extreme liner would probably be even better than the silk liner.

The army issue reversible Softie tops and bottoms SgtFruitcake was wearing will easily add another 10-12 Degree Celsius to the sleep system. Cost is around £50 for the Softie suit.

http://www.strikeforcesupplies.co.uk/index.php?method=cat&id=79

Military Issue Sleep Bags such as the US Modular Sleep System are generally rated for lower temperatures than civilian specification bags (military personnel are expected to cope with colder temperatures) for similar technology and weight and are not included in the Civilian EN13537 specification. They are available in the UK.

http://www.strikeforcesupplies.co.uk/index.php?method=stock&id=3006&from=6

Even at £150, they do represent excellent value for money (especially considering the addition of a Goretex Bivi Bag) if you can handle the weight (4.4Kg) and the bulk. You will still need a full 5 season full length sleeping Pad to get the best out of the ECWSS as well.

Actually, I just realized this is incorrect. Prior to getting the RidgeRest, I used the emergency blanket (shiny side up) on the bottom; a closed-cell, 1 cm thick, blue foam; then the inflatable mattress. The intent of the RidgeRest was to combine those bottom 2 layers into one piece of gear (the RidgeRest is thicker than the blue foam so it does provide a bit more insulation too).

AFLM, Thanks for the corrections on the bag and cover. It does not change the issue though. He did not include the Softie set in his display of the size (and weight) of the lighter system. And he is still showing a -15 bag, -25 with the Softie, against a -40 bag (civ. rating) without adding the cover and without wearing the Softie. The two systems are not in the same catagory.

I would not recommend the Wiggys bag for backpacking, I use mine for canoeing and winter conditions although it is not bad for backpacking in mild conditions (just the overbag down to 0C and just the inner bag to -15C). It is also great for car camping or winter survival (snow machine, aircraft, etc.) because it it a stronger design than the lighter bags designed for backpacking and climbing.

Respectfully,

Jerry

http://olive-drab.com/od_soldiers_gear_sleeping_bag.php

The rating for the MSS is -35C for a soldier (difference is typically 5C lower than a civilian could expect for a comfort rating) wearing expedition rated polypro underwear. The polypro will add another 5-7C. Take away the Polypro and the MSS is rated for a soldier to -28 to -30C.

So for a comfort rating for a civilian I would expect the MSS be capable down to -25C.

The following could also be worn to take the Snugpak system down to a comfortable -30C

AFV crew Fire Retardant Base Layer Thermal polo neck - £13

Thermal AFV long johns - £8

http://www.surplusandoutdoors.com/shop/o...een-614784.html

I'm not sure how big the bags are we are using now, or even what their rating is, and would hate to guess on that but I will try to find out. I can tell you that one won't go in the pack, and is awkward strapped to the outside of the pack, the other will barely fit in the pack but takes up about half the space of an approximately 65L pack. I've seen others mention a compression sack, which I am not using yet, and wondering if this would help a great deal. I am also open to attaching the bag to the outside of the pack to save some room inside the pack. Perhaps i can figure out a way to lash it just above the sleep pad.

I'm certainly considering a down bag, at least for myself, as several people have already mentioned it, just gotta get DW to loosen the purse strings, which may be difficult given a few recent and unexpected household expenses/issues. I'll keep an eye out at any second hand shops, but in our area, there's not much to choose from with that.

Cost has been a major consideration in all this as I have had to update mine and my son's gear as we progress through scouting. Currently our sleeping pads are the blue, closed cell foam ones from wal-mart, which I will try to update as funds allow. Will also be doing the silver emergency blanket underneath the pad others have mentioned. When possible we also toss some extra blankets underneath the pad for extra padding and insulation but that requires a car camping campout. What we are working towards is not only the first tenderfoot requirement of presenting oneself to the scoutmaster properly dressed and packed for an overnight campout, but also a pack that we can simply grab and go for future campouts.

A good dinner earlier in the evening, followed up with a hot cup of noodle-rich soup right before bed. Campsites could have been better sheltered but we had to go where the campsites were located so not much choice there.

The fleece liners we have are thin (but warm and cozy, DS has been sleeping in his at night since the last campout we used them) and roll up to about the size of a football, so they can be tucked just about anywhere in or on the pack.

Something synthetic or used military surplus might be just the ticket for DS, I'll take a look at our local shop and see what I can find. We're a tad farther north here in Kentucky, so might need something with a slightly lower rating. DS has specifically asked for a 0 degree mummy type bag so I am kinda looking for that specifically.