Hi everyone, been busy last little while with my son being involved with Boy Scouts. Spent a year as the Cub Master of his pack (which sadly folded as no one else wanted to take over leadership of the pack) and am now an Assistant Scoutmaster with his new troop. Some recent cold weather camping with our outdated and under-rated sleeping bags has lead me back here to ask the wonderful and knowledgeable folks here at ETS about a decent cold weather sleeping bag that hopefully won't break the bank. Specifically, what we are looking for is one that will:

1) Roll up compactly and fit in the back pack without taking up half the pack space

2) Be rated to about 0 degrees Fahrenheit (about -18 celcius). We also have the fleece sleeping bag liners that are rated to 50 degrees Fahrenheit we will use in conjunction with this bag so I am ok if the combo of liner and bag together would get us to the 0 degree rating.

3) Be of the mummy type

4) Be available in longer lengths for someone over 6 feet tall

Our scoutmaster has a coleman 0 degree bag he recommends, but I'm not sure how compactly it rolls up (I do plan to ask him if he wouldn't mind bringing it to our next meeting). I've also heard good things about the snug pak brand but was wondering if anyone had any other suggestions? Thanks in advance for your help.

Swallow hard, spend the money, and get a decent,properly rated down bag, especially since you list compactness as an important criterion. It isn't easy, but you will be grateful for years into the future, when you spend warm, comfortable nights in the bag. With the liner, you can probably get a bag rated to 20F or so.

Prowl second hand stores - you can find good deals there if you shop carefully, or try REI or other major retailers, and see if you can get a discount.

What is the size of the bag you are using?

Remember,too, that sleeping warm and comfortably is more than just the bag. What kind of pad do you have beneath you? Are you eating a meal with complex carbos that will continue to heat you into the night? Is your campsite well sheltered? These are all critical factors.

You will get lots of opinions, and there are lots of bags out there. Offhand, I would look to the REI bags for quality and reasonable price. You will doubtless get other opinions.

Warm, compact, cheap - Pick two out of three.

Fleece is much less compactable than a down or synthetic sleeping bag so in my experience, for the same volume, a thicker sleeping bag is warmer than a sleeping bag / fleece liner combo.

It will be a bit bigger, but I think that for a new scout and inexperienced outdoors person a synthetic bag is safer. It will retain some warming capability when wet, and my scouts tend to get their stuff wet due to not paying attention to environmental factors and not thinking ahead. You can find some that pack fairly small and are fairly light, though not like a down bag. I also live in a wet climate, so it is more important for me.

Kelty, Eureka, and North Face have been making less expensive synthetic bags that are pretty good. I use military surplus Extended Cold Weather Sleeping Systems (ECWSS) for most of mine. You can get them for less than $100 here and it is very flexible. It does not pack small when you carry the complete system though. In North Carolina we rarely have to do that.

maybe a bit of lateral thinking: ridgerest mats are the warmest by a significant margin (the ones with the reflecive foil)and will add a lot of warmth. Since you can put it on the outside of the sac it uses no room. Army surplus bags are cheap and tough though bulky. BUT simply strap it to the top of the sac and again no room used!
qjs

Many trade offs to consider. Having done a fair amount of Scout camping trips with our Troop, (I was Scoutmaster for several years) I have to agree with the comment earlier about Scout bags being made from a synthetic fill, more for safety and practical reasons. For an adult, I've enjoyed my modern down fill bag. By modern, I mean something with a good water repellent shell, and treated down. I happen to have one from EMS (Eastern Mountain Sports), but there are many good ones out there. The exact model I have isn't made, but the current version is called a Mountain Light 0 degree long.
http://www.ems.com/product/index.jspproductId=12723076&cp=3677338.3705267

The great thing about this type of bag is the warmth, obviously, but it also will come with a compression sack that will cinch down to where it's not much bigger than the size of a Nalgene bottle! You will pay for a bag like this, but if you sleep well, and have a lighter pack, it'll pay dividends for many years.

I usually sleep on a Thermarest Prolite pad. It's very important to have a good pad under your bag.
http://www.cascadedesigns.com/therm-a-rest/mattresses/fast-and-light/prolite-2012/product

More than anything, enjoy these years camping with your boy. As my dad told me when we were standing in the nursery at the hospital when my son was born...

"Find a way to enjoy a little something every day with that youngster, because before you know it, you'll be dropping off suitcases at a dorm room, and wondering where the time went."

He was right, just glad I had the chance to sit around a bunch of campfires with him before that happened!

Back in my day, you didn't "roll" sleeping bags (except for the inside-house sleepover ones), you "stuffed" them. Randomly crammed them into a stuff sack so as not to force internal insulation to shift like rolling can do.

And now-a-days you stuff them into compression stuffsacks. After it's in there, you crank down on the side straps to make the bundle much smaller. You have to remember to pull your bag out, shake it up, and let it loft for a while before you crawl in to sleep. A good pad underneath will make things warmer too. As will clean dry socks and a knit cap worn to bed. I have seen many scouts needlessly chilled at night because they didn't do the simple things like changing to dry socks and putting a hat on.

Following this line of thought, at least equal attention needs to be paid to what you are sleeping on as to what you are sleeping in.

I recently aquired a RidgeRest for winter camping and now us that in conjunction with a ThermaRest-style inflatable open-cell foam mattress (an older version of the MEC Reactor 3.8). Prior to getting the RidgeRest, I'd put an Emergency Blanket, shiny side up, underneath my mattress. In both cases, you get some of your heat reflecting back to you, the RideRest just boosts the overall R rating of your mattress system.

Speaking of systems, I also use an overbag to boost the warmth of my sleeping bag. I have a -7 C (~20F) down mummy bag, but for winter add a synthetic overbag (MEC Penguin Overbag) which adds 5 to 10 degrees C to the system getting me down to around -12 to -17 (~ 10 to 1 F). The other advantage of the overbag is that it protects the down inner bag from condensation.

The first time I used this complete system I was actually a little too warm and had to unzip the overbag a bit with the overnight temperature reaching somewhere around -9 C.

Edited to add:

Actually, taking the sleep system one step further, another thing that helps is a solid-sided tent for winter camping. I have winter camped in mesh sided tents but found a bit of wind can really cut through you (unless your sleeping bag / overbag is windproof). If your tent can keep the wind from you, you'll stay warmer through the night.

A sleeping bag suitable for -18C use will be bulky. You can get half the bulk of a synthetic bag if you select high specification down with 700 Fill power - 800 (very rare) and 900 fill power doesn't really exist. The down bag will weigh a minimum of 1.6 to 1.7 Kg mostly dependent on the size as some of the lighter bags will have a very tight fit i.e. for mountaineers who tend to be quite lean even compared to today's military personnel). Cost of the down bag will be between $400-600.

A synthetic bag will be quite bulky and will typically weigh between 2.8 to 3Kg. Synthetic bags, which will go down to such low temperatures are actually few and far between. There are some bags from Snugpak. Cost will be approx half that of a top end down bag.

This is essentially the sleep system I will use for cold weather. (comparison in size and weight to the US Modular Sleep System)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fES2kb29smw

I will also use an Snugpak Expanda Winter Panel for use with with the Snugpak Osprey 12, which allows more volume if a were to add a secondary down liner bag.

The Softie Reversible tops and bottoms and the Snugpak 12 Osprey and Expanda Panel weighs around 3.5 Kg. The Softie suit is also a good idea if you need to go for that middle of night call of nature.

http://www.snugpak.com/outdoor/expanda-panel-winter

You will also need a full 5 season, full length sleeping Pad. Expect it to weigh another 1+ Kg.

SgtFruitcake has tried to compare apples to oranges. He is comparing a what appears to be an excellent but,(as you point out) small single down bag rated for -5 or so with a full size double bag rated to -30. His silk liner and WATERPROOF overbag will not bring it down that much (5 or so at the most). He also appears to be recommending an overbag that will make his excellent down bag (or any other) a frozen lump in only a few days. Coated nylon vapor barriers are used by some (not me) as liners, but the half liter or so of sweat every night will soak the bag then in the day it will freeze up. NOT for me, thanks.

He also does not seem to know that the military bag shown is available on the internet at reasonable prices or from the original manufacturer (Wiggy's) new at any time. They also (as well as others) have synthetic bags rated (and good to) the lowest temps of any bag around. Selection is there. No relationship to Wiggy's except as a satisfied customer.

I agree with those who recommend a synthetic bag for scouts. I would dearly love to have my old Holubar down bag back (Alice Holubar was an artist with the sewing machine), but there are places where down is surpassed by synthetic and youngsters (like the scouts I work with) are one place. I think you will find that with careful selection you can find a synthetic that is only a little heavier and more bulky (15 - 20%, not twice) just don't try to compare ultralight gear with military surplus.

Respectfully,

Jerry