"Clovis first" is the traditional story about population of the Americas,but there is mounting good evidence for earlier people, and more and more archeologists are agreeing that there are pre-Clovis groups. As to how they got here, the route that is gaining favor is across the Bering land bridge and down the west coast. It helps this notion that so far the earliest human remains currently come from Santa Rosa Island, within Channel Islands National Park. This material dates from 13,000 BP (before present). Being on an island, it is clear that the group possessed some sort of water craft, which strengthens the left coast migration hypothesis.

We are a long way from consensus on how folks got here, to put it mildly. At least we have more data than we did fifty years ago. I think it is fair to say that archeological research has demonstrated that pre-Columbian groups were considerably more sophisticated than they were thought to be 100 years ago or so, about the time that reasonably scientific archaeology began to be practiced.

wow. that's pretty interesting stuff. i just found out a week ago that there used to be a completely unique Native American tribe that inhabited the outermost Channel Island called San Nicolas. They were removed a couple of centuries ago from their island when Russian seamen (whalers or fur fishers) used force to try to gain the island territory. White people moved the Indians thinking it would protect them. Apparently this Indian tribe had its own unique language and culture. But sadly, the culture and language were completely lost after they were transported to the mainland ... I think they all died. Something about the mainland environment did not work for them.

I am not sure I am coming to the conclusion - necessarily - that these Indians in the Channel Islands came from ancestors who traveled across the Bering land bridge. Maybe the Channel Is. indians were the descendants of a completely separate migration pattern that came from some other direction in the ocean ... Hawaii, Mexico, Colombia? This is not to say that some Indians in N. America did not come from the far north - just goes to show how much we dont know. but i am starting to understand why you are spending so much time on the CA islands :-)

Pete2

And the question of alien presence in pre-Columbian America continues! Why is is that the Mayans had advanced astronomy, mathematics, and even aerospace engineering, and yet they were defenseless against germs? Is it like the War of the Worlds? Why didn't their alien overlords protect them? Why weren't they able to activate the crystal skulls in time?

More evidence of Pacal's space flight:



http://alienexplorations.blogspot.com/2012/02/pacal-votan-tomb-lid-ancient-aliens.html

To boldly go where no artificial civilization has gone before!

Merge that one with the TV thread. Look at how many things the got completely wrong making the model from the picture. biggest one is both hands are clearly in front of the cross shape not on either side so its in the background. The shape around looks like a window, I would bet its a sacrificial alter rather than a space ship, the way the hands are bent at the wrists suggest they are bound.

I have been to Chichen Itza (even to the top of the Launchpad ) , Uxmal etc, the Mayans had not even mastered the architectural arch unlike somewhere like Durham Cathedral. (much much more impressive)

The Mayans just couldn't get enough headless corpses then playing basketball with the folks heads.

Imagining that the Mayans had aerospace and space flight capability probably says more about our own civilization than the Mayan one.

No doubt all those corpses around the Mayan pyramids did not make a positive contribution to their health care system. That might have something to do with the germs problem.

BTW Bingley - we are also very susceptibled to bacteria and viruses today. We happen to have the CDC in Atlanta and a bunch of medical researchers with electron microscopes - but still we are very vulnerable. It's too soon to conclude that we will not see another outbreak of some horrendous illness. The world today is a very crowded place.

Pete2

A flying… SPACE altar??? No, sir, that is just too much. I can believe aliens landed on earth and gave spaceship piloting lessons an earthly monarch of an isolated empire. It's utterly believable -- behold the crystal skulls! But I draw the line at your fanciful imagination, my good sir! Our little grey overlords are too evolved and advanced as to need human sacrifice

What if we are just one big petri dish experiment for some alien race? Discuss.

That makes the original question in this thread much more interesting, doesn't it?

San Nicolas is the furthest out, and the relatively most isolated of the eight Channel Islands, but they had regular contact with the other islands and with the mainland. The Chumash and Tongva had very efficient watercraft, much admired by the Spaniards who first contacted them. The inhabitants of San Nicolas Island were quite similar to the groups around them.

In general,mainland life did not work for most the islanders who came to the mainland - Nicolenos, Chumash, or Tongva. It - quite depressing to read the mission death and baptismal records - many islanders died with no children, the population shrinking to about an estimated 10% of its former level in roughly one hundred years.

Juana Maria, the Lone Woman of San Nicolas Island, died after a mere six weeks on the mainland in Santa Barbara. This is the lady made famous in the book, Island of the Blue Dolphin.