Many of the stories of got lost in the outdoors are not from overnight hikers, but rather people off for a walk in the woods. My thought is that even if they had only a tiny pack (Camelbak or similar) & a jacket they would be much better off.

So -- How do we encourage people to take a pack every time they go for a walk/hike?

We can talk and show people stories. be aware of how they react and stop before we irritate them. Bring the subject up again when it seems good.

Show them the stories of these people who got lost, were isolated in a wrecked car, or caught in unexpected circumstances. They will see how a minimum of preparation will save a lot of pain.

When I was doing SAR, members of our group regularly gave presentations to groups, most often elementary school classes on basic overnight survival if you were ever "confused' on an outing.

One night we were beating the bushes for a kid who had wandered away on an outing. About 2 AM we learned that he had attended one of my recent presentations. This definitely upped the stakes for me.

About dawn we found him. He had sought shelter and got some rest; in fact, he was sound asleep when an earlier search party had gone by.

I don't think we necessarily have to encourage people to carry a lot of stuff in the woods. It is more important to encourage folks to acquire the knowledge and skills that will serve them well in an emergency.

I can think of three instances where parties carrying a reasonable amount of gear got into trouble. A hiker with a fifty pound pack was sitting still, quietly going hypothermic on a cold, misty night when we contacted him. He informed us that "it was impossible to start a fire."

In the second case a party with backpacks, startled by an unexpected turn in the weather, started to run, discarding their gear. They did indeed create a genuine problem when one of them turned an ankle. They did have their priorities; all had their bongs when we reached them.

Another backpacking party managed to saturate their sleeping bags by sleeping outside their tents as a storm arrived (!!). The following day they attempted to surmount a pass; when they reached the pass, one of them could go no further. They left him there (taking his gear) and then headed downhill to their cars. The next evening we reached the frozen corpse after an all night hike through deep snow. They had attended a "survival school" after getting in trouble on an earlier trip - can't say they learned very much.

My point would be that education should stress acquiring skills and knowledge, not just shiny goodies and trinkets. What is between the ears is far more important than what is in the pack. In the best situation, both are well equipped to survive.

There are the people who with no gear can survive insane conditions and walk out hale and hearty. There are people who call 911 when McD's runs out of chicken nuggets.

Education is great. But like you can lead a horse to water... some people will still wander around relatively clueless, do stupid things in stupid ways and endanger other people who are looking for them.

The best I can do is be prepared for what may happened, try to calm those around me when it does and assume a leadership role to ensure the group gets through.

hikermor, those are great stories making the point. Carrying some gear is good, and I'm not suggesting people should go out without appropriate clothing and equipment. But a bit of ordinary common sense, together with a bit of survival specific knowledge, and some plain old will to survive is the most important thing.

Also, as JBMat says below, we can be prepared to assist others as best we can.

Does this happen a lot? We just did that scenario in a mock exercise, almost identical. (Group smoked pot, ran when the weather turned, discarding gear. Victim fell and was separated from the group.) The only difference is that the injury is a fractured forearm rather than a sprained ankle.

a couple Public Service billboards on freeways leading to some of the big park areas might be something for SAR groups to push for.
they have "do you know where your kid is" why not "are you ready to get lost?"..people of course zip by at 90MPH but it might jog a few people to put a few extra crunchy bars and that foil bag they see at the 7-11 check out into a pocket..

The law is still on the books, but I don't think it is enforced anymore--

When on US Forest land you were required to have a shovel, axe and bucket in the summer for fire suppression. They used to ticket you if your group didn't have it.
Didn't matter if you were on foot, motorcycle or car.

If i wasn't such a bleeding heart libertarian, I would like a similar law for other needed emergency gear based on environs, (avi gear in avi terrain, water in the desert, etc.)

Reviewing the incidents to which I have responded over the years, there are two common factors that characterize victims - inexperience and alcohol (as in legally drunk, even at autopsy). Some were also high on various and sundry drugs.I am talking about victims in the 70s and 80s - I imagine the drug picture is now more complex.

One personal benefit from my SAR experience is the transformation from typical college party boy to a very occasional sipper of beer and wine.

I imagine more than a few of us have made that transition. It's been years since I have been over the DUI/DWI limit. As I recall I'd reached my destination after a very long drive, and was trying to relax and chill over a few glasses of a very nice red.

But your observation calls into question the premise of this thread; how do you convince people who are intentionally drunk or illegally high to be responsible and carry a small piece of kit, when they are in a very irresponsible mode? That may be a rhetorical question, but it follows from hikermor's observation.

Designate someone to be responsible? Yeah, like I'd want to be that guy....

Boy Scouts has been doing that for many decades. Cub Scouts and Girl Scouts ... not so much ... except for the groups I was associated with. This was actually how I got hooked into ETS to begin with.

I think this is also why Doug made the Personal Survival Paks. They provide a high-quality low-cost fast way to gear up in a tiny way. Supplement the PSP as recommended in its instructions (shelter, FAK, knife, water) and you're pretty darn good to go.

REMINDER: Doug's Personal Survival Pak would make a GREAT gift for any holiday ... including Thanksgiving day, Valentine's Day, Sweetest Day , anniversaries, birthdays, Saturdays, ...

It's been my experience that those who regularly inebriate themselves, whether by legal means or otherwise, will seldom be receptive to any form of reason, even when sober, so as to affect their condition positively should they face crisis after imbibing in an intoxicant.

It seems a reasonable conclusion that those who are reckless and irresponsible enough to risk impairment when subjecting themselves to perils and hazards of an unfamiliar and insecure environment will not take any counsel to heed for their own good. One of those "You can lead a horse to water..." things I guess.

But then I suppose we all succumb to bouts of poor judgment from time to time. Those of us fortunate enough to realize we are human have the chance to pre-empt some of our troubles. So even though we may find ourselves wanting in an adverse situation, we have a better chance of surviving our "adventures".

If we ignore the inebriated idiots as they're largley beyond hope, the best way to do it would be to have it in a prepackaged kit. Package it similiar to a 72 hour kit backpack and stick Bear Grylls name on it.

Make it as idiot proof as possible, so no sharps or fire. Focus on staying put, warm, dry, hydrated, and signalling for help. Anybody inexperienced enough to need it is as liable as not to open up a vein or start a brush fire trying to stay warm and dry.

As an example:
Reference cards (S.T.O.P., how to use a whistle, compass, mirror, basic knots, etc.)
Basic FAK
Emergency suglasses
Poncho with blanket liner
Emergency pup tent/bivy sack
Lensatic compass (I've run ito a lot of people who are worthless with a baseplate compass)
Storm, or other big and loud whistle
Signal mirror
Foil packaged water (2 quarts)
Plastic bodied compact flashlight loaded with lithiums. Run time over output.
Hot packs
Granola bars

Analogous to auto safety? Engineering and legislative changes made big impacts on ER casualties in the 70's: dui plus seat belts/airbags plus improved ski boots/bindings resulted in quieter Saturday nights for orthopedic surgeons and er staff. Next steps would HUI (hiking under the influence) legislation, Official rucksack with pre-packaged survival gear and plbs, and increased ranger presence. Eventually, drone surveillance will solve lots of the problems. Maybe a harness on each hiker with high strength monofilament tethers attached to powered reels: at the end of the day, fire up the diesel and haul 'em in.

I don't question the usefulness of sunglasses. But it does make me wonder: what did people do for thousands of years before sunglasses? Did desert travelers have an alternative? What did sailors do to combat the endless sun, and nowhere to hide, on the open sea?

Arctic peoples developed eye coverings with narrow slits to protect against glare and consequent snow blindness. I imagine there were other measure elsewhere in bright conditions. I also suspect that many people had really bad vision before they were too dreadfully old.

Yeah, slit goggles go back many centuries. IIRC something akin to the eyeblack that football players use was also made out of charcoal.

That sounds far too Big Brother. I'm sorry, but you have to be your own person and can't expect the government to regulate everything. The government is best which governs least.

If you're play stupid games and win stupid prizes, too darn bad.

If you play stupid games but think ahead a little bit, well, that's probably most of us at one point.

...If I could get hikers to 1. leave a note and 2. carry a pack with water and a jacket, I'd be halfway home. No one expects to get hurt/lost/ delayed...you just have to assume...and prepare

Water in the amount sufficient for an all day hike is not really "tiny" or featherweight (1/2 gal minimum). So the backpack must be comfortable and the person must know how to wear it comfortably. Camelback type with the waist strap and chest strap engaged is the way to go. Almost unnoticeable, especially if you allow enough space between it and your back on a hot day. So, I would start from explaining obvious benefits of hydration, point to the most unobtrusive way to carry the required amount, and eventually make a suggestion on other survival gear which will fit there easily "just in case".

Good points - make it easy. ( and include sunscreen & bug dope)

For a tiny pack, REI Outlet currently has a Pacsafe Venturesafe 150 Cross Body Pack - 2012 Closeout on sale for $27.73.

http://www.rei.com/product/856329/pacsafe-venturesafe-150-cross-body-pack-2012-closeout

I got one to try changing my EDC "system" from a waist pack, mainly because it is large enough to carry a 7-inch or 8-inch tablet computer. It holds an iPad Mini with protective case just fine, with a small amount of remaining room for extra gear. I'm pleased with its quality/construction.

Steve

Instead of sunglasses---

Tibetans use strands of yak wool. Sort of like polarization.

Do you think that pack would hold a pair of medium sized binocs?

A definite maybe!

This video is the best I've seen for showing how much you can cram into it; there are others, too:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IUS1WepdSDk

For medium binocs it would be hard to say. If it is any help, prior to settling on the iPad Mini I was able to just fit a slightly smaller 7-in. Android tablet into the pack, along with a plastic VHS cassette case that was crammed with supplies, plus a sleek 3-cell AAA flashlight and a small amount of other supplies. I had to ditch much of that to hold the larger (mainly wider) iPad Mini.

HTH,
Steve

There is a larger Pacsafe if you like that format but need it bigger. Pacsafe Venturesafe 325

Frankly ???
I have long since gave up on people
They can live their life (and die) their way
All I want from them is to let me live my way

Not only they won't listen or do the right thing, they will think and say all kind of noensense about you. And when they face emergencies, they run to you for help. Grrrrr.

PacSafe crossbody looks interesting. I'll check it out.
I really wish that people who did YouTube's were more action-oriented. It would have helped if she had demonstrated a couple of different ways of putting on the pack ... more useful than knowing what compartments exist.

Pete

The Grand Canyon National Park does a pretty good job of this -- their signs warn of the dangers and there was a sign telling the story of (if I remember correctly) a marathoner who died hiking down from the rim. But maybe I feel that way because I read the signs. Many don't.

And well they should. Grand Canyon ranks at or near the top in NP areas in the number of SAR operations per year quite regularly. A lot of it is simply high visitor numbers.

I am surprised no one has mentioned Maxpedition products. They have a lot of sling packs, small to moderate volume, which are more casual than a conventional backpack. I am not a big fan, because to my eye, they are unnecessarily clunky and too laded with MOLLE (or PALS, whatever) loops that increase the weight and aren't that useful. Still, they can be useful.

Maxpedition bags are very well constructed; I have one (Condor) but very rarely use it because while "bomb-proof" it is unnecessarily heavy and stiff. Their small bags which I have seen are made from the same heavy material and are way overbuilt for a small bag you want for casual use. FWIW, IMO

Here's one that might show what you are looking for:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xnq8iJfBnMs

While not useful, this one is hilarious because the presenter thinks it is a waist pack!

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ER00GfF4W2E

The larger version looks interesting but for me this hits the "sweet spot" for balancing size against capacity. It enforces a discipline, which helps counter my tendency to over-pack. And, in an office setting, the fact that it is carrying a tablet computer gives it instant credibility without marking me as a scary "prepper".

Standard disclaimers, no commercial interest...
Steve

Forced discipline ... yep, that's one reason I keep one of the older Camelbak Mules, but with that I have 100 oz of water and room for essentials.

As I see it a tiny pack is step 2, first you need mindset and after that the mind will determine the pack size that's appropriate.

I have a Maxpedition Kodiak gearslinger. Mostly I use it as a laptop bag. It works very well as a bookbag, not so well as a pack. The single strap is fine for short periods but over time it puts a lot of pressure on that one spot. I've found it gets to be too much if you load it down, but it's fine for computer.