#264304 - 10/14/13 04:18 AM
Re: SAR reboot after BC man found alive
[Re: clearwater]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3164
Loc: Big Sky Country
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Thanks to everyone for making this an amazing thread! It's very often those ones that go off on a tangent that offer the most insight. I've learned a lot of how searches work, and I'd like to know more. Last year I read an article about the psychology of searching; how the mind of the lost person works. I learned about gravity traps and the way you think when you're lost. Now, I can see how flipping the script would be useful if I ever get lost. Knowing not only how to signal but what the SAR guys are looking for and how they'll be searching for me, that could save a life.
Who'd have thunk I'd be contemplating the best way to be lost!
_________________________
“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman
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#264313 - 10/14/13 01:15 PM
Re: SAR reboot after BC man found alive
[Re: clearwater]
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Veteran
Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
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I would be very unhappy if a SAR was not started when two SOS's were spotted and ignored and a family member or friend died.
RCMP messed up.
Sorry if some are thin skinned. Clearwater, No one is denying that "RCMP messed up". SAR is done by human beings, and mistakes happen. Get used to it. Everyone involved does their best to learn from these mistakes to try to make sure that it doesn't happen again. At the bottom of the article you linked, there was a link to an article with somewhat more information. See RCMP admit 'error' for not launching SOS search Here are some quotes from that (emphasis is mine): •Feb. 15 - The couple arrived in Golden after checking out of a hotel in Alberta. They didn't check into a new hotel, but immediately hit the slopes at the Kicking Horse resort. Later, they went out of bounds for some backcountry skiing, but became lost.
•Feb. 17 - A ski guide spotted an SOS signal that the couple had marked in the snow. The Golden and District Search and Rescue team and Kicking Horse resort were alerted. But a search of the resort parking lots for abandoned vehicles turned up nothing. The couple had parked their vehicle in underground parking, which was not searched. Neither did a search for missing ski rental equipment or missing persons reports from local hotels. The Golden RCMP detachment was not contacted.
•Feb. 21 - Two more SOS messages were found by ski groups. RCMP were called. They contacted Kicking Horse, who told them that the signal had already been investigated.
•Feb. 23 - The couple's family filed a missing persons report after the pair failed to return to their home in the Montreal suburb of Lasalle.
•Feb. 24 - Search and rescue was finally dispatched after a man waving his arms was spotted by a helicopter. Within an hour, Blackburn was rescued and his wife's frozen body was recovered. So apparently RCMP was not even contacted when the first SOS was spotted on Feb 17. The RCMP wasn't contacted until a week after the couple went missing, when the second SOS was spotted on Feb 21. When RCMP investigated, they were told by the resort that the SOS had already been checked out. Was it really just RCMP who messed up? How about the resort? Or the couple themselves? Sorry if you don't understand the reality of SAR.
_________________________
"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz
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#264317 - 10/14/13 02:44 PM
Re: SAR reboot after BC man found alive
[Re: clearwater]
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Old Hand
Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 776
Loc: Northern IL
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"Regarding ignoring clues, unfortunatelythat does happen sometimes. One of the issues is that those officials who have legal responsibility for SAR (RCMP, County Sheriffs, Alaska State Troopers, etc) generally have many other duties besides SAR. "
I would be very unhappy if a SAR was not started when two SOS's were spotted and ignored and a family member or friend died.
RCMP messed up.
Sorry if some are thin skinned. People screw up all the time. It is part of being human.
_________________________
Warning - I am not an expert on anything having to do with this forum, but that won't stop me from saying what I think.  Bob
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#264320 - 10/14/13 03:14 PM
Re: SAR reboot after BC man found alive
[Re: ILBob]
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Geezer
Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
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The couple's car was in the resort's parking garage. Talk about a screaming red flag. But that horse was beaten in another thread.
That doesn't seem to be the case with the mushroom pickers though. Two guys who got lost and then became even "loster". The lostee's have a responsibility to assist in being found. I don't see that they assisted to any significant degree while the search was ongoing. Did I miss something?
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??
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#264322 - 10/14/13 03:54 PM
Re: SAR reboot after BC man found alive
[Re: clearwater]
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Veteran
Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 1419
Loc: Nothern Ontario
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I would be very unhappy if a SAR was not started when two SOS's were spotted and ignored and a family member or friend died.
Blame, point the finger at whomever you want. The bottom line is this; Anytime any unprepared person goes missing, had they been equipped with a PLB or SPOT and were properly prepared for the expected weather, terrain etc, the outcome would be much different.
_________________________
Earth and sky, woods and fields, lakes and rivers, the mountain and the sea, are excellent schoolmasters, and teach some of us more than we can ever learn from books.
John Lubbock
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#264323 - 10/14/13 04:27 PM
Re: SAR reboot after BC man found alive
[Re: AKSAR]
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Geezer in Chief
Geezer
Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
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This additional, more comprehensive information is most revealing. Looks like there is plenty of room for improved procedures.....
_________________________
Geezer in Chief
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#264334 - 10/14/13 08:55 PM
Re: SAR reboot after BC man found alive
[Re: Russ]
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Veteran
Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
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The couple's car was in the resort's parking garage. Talk about a screaming red flag. I would imagine that on most days during the season at a large resort there are quite a few cars in the parking garage? Remember, the resort did their search of the lodge area's parking on Feb 17 when the SOS was spotted (and only 2 days after they skied off area). However, their family did not file a missing person report until Feb 23. Also, they had not yet checked in to a hotel at the resort. So when the resort did their check on Feb 17 they really had no certain way to tie a car left in the garage to an SOS spotted in the snow. There are lots of reason people might leave a car overnight in a ski resort parking garage. (Folks who drank too much apres ski and decide to take a cab back to their hotel? People who hooked up with a member of the opposite sex and ride back with the other person?) A car left for a day or too in a parking garage is certainly a clue, but I don't think that was quite as much of a "screaming red flag" as you assume.
_________________________
"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz
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#264336 - 10/14/13 09:33 PM
Re: SAR reboot after BC man found alive
[Re: AKSAR]
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Veteran
Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 1419
Loc: Nothern Ontario
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The couple's car was in the resort's parking garage. Talk about a screaming red flag. I would imagine that on most days during the season at a large resort there are quite a few cars in the parking garage? AKSAR is correct. This whole situation received extensive media coverage here. The car in the garage part of the story turned out not be a a "screaming red flag" as that same parking garage had many cars parked there for days on end...
_________________________
Earth and sky, woods and fields, lakes and rivers, the mountain and the sea, are excellent schoolmasters, and teach some of us more than we can ever learn from books.
John Lubbock
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#264337 - 10/14/13 09:51 PM
Re: SAR reboot after BC man found alive
[Re: AKSAR]
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Geezer
Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
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Every hotel I've checked into wanted the lic plate # of the car I'm driving, but for that to play a role they would have needed to check all the parking lots and actually determine if they had cars that shouldn't be there. From the link above: ...Feb. 17 - A ski guide spotted an SOS signal that the couple had marked in the snow. The Golden and District Search and Rescue team and Kicking Horse resort were alerted. But a search of the resort parking lots for abandoned vehicles turned up nothing. The couple had parked their vehicle in underground parking, which was not searched. Neither did a search for missing ski rental equipment or missing persons reports from local hotels. The Golden RCMP detachment was not contacted. ... -- The article emphasized that the resort searched the resort parking lots for abandoned vehicles; what criteria did they use to determine that a car was abandoned? It was a red flag, but they had to see it first. You may be right though, I wasn't there.
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#264338 - 10/14/13 10:10 PM
Re: SAR reboot after BC man found alive
[Re: Russ]
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Veteran
Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 1419
Loc: Nothern Ontario
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Getting back to this thread's original story. A postscript of the last day of the search. One of the volunteers who helped ferry searchers across the Skeena River lost his truck and boat in the river. Judging by the comments on the news website, it nearly could of been much worse.
_________________________
Earth and sky, woods and fields, lakes and rivers, the mountain and the sea, are excellent schoolmasters, and teach some of us more than we can ever learn from books.
John Lubbock
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