I recall that we discussed this in detail:
http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=168032&page=1

That is a real inflammatory statement and really does a disservice to the many SAR women and men who every day risk their lives to save others.

Have many ever been on a SAR search? Although I do not belong to any SAR organization, I have stepped forward to help in many searches (including in the last 2 weeks) when a SAR teams puts out a call for experienced outdoors people to assist in searches. Being out in ugly, wet weather, and with being cold, hungry and your body hurting from searching for some very long hours in some of the most difficult terrain imaginable takes it's toll on anybody and that includes the the toughest of the tough. At some point after days of fruitless searching a decision must be made that the search is called off.

Many SAR teams are small and only have so many resources to draw on. Case in point, these 2 mushroom pickers. If you had looked on the map, Terrace BC is almost as remote as it gets. There were some local SAR members that were involved with that search along with others from across BC. These volunteers who were away from their families, their loved ones and missed work for days and searched until they could no more is a testament to their dedication.

Instead of being condemned with such inflammatory statements, they all should be commended for their efforts and any blame game needs to be directed more to the continuously unprepared people that these fine SAR teams are tasked in finding at great personal sacrifice and risk to their own lives.

Canadian SAR has lots of issues: horrible weather, rugged terrain, dense forest, unprepared rescuees, uneducated rescues, etc... and most of it is out of their control and they tackle it anyway. No SAR team is ever going to have a perfect success ratio but come on, these men and woman are amazing and, I'm sorry but most of the time, the fatalities are not their fault. They do a job that most of us wouldn't do and the expectations of them can be unreasonable at times.

The story says that the men were outside the search area, and that there was absolutely no sign of them in the search area after a week of looking. In this case, is it possible that the guy saw the helicopter flying TO and FROM the search site, when they chopped wasn't looking for them and the men didn't or couldn't signal them? Is it possible that they built a shelter and camouflaged themselves from the SAR teams? Is it possible that he built a warming fire, not a visual signal fire, and that the searchers were too far away from smelling it and couldn't see it through the forest? Is it possible that the guys were outside of the area they said they were going to be in? Is it possible that they moved away from their searchers as they tried to find help? Is it possible that they had hypothermia and did the exact opposite of what they should have done?

Watch the Survivorman episode with Les and his friend Bob in Temagami Ontario, or the one where he's in the Sierras, and see for yourself just how difficult it can be even when the rescuee is in good health and knowledgeable, and the weather is good, and give the SAR teams the respect they deserve.

I see that my countryman and countrywoman have summed up my thoughts on the unfortunate post quite eloquently and effectively. Though sorely tempted, I will not respond with my specific thoughts out of respect for our moderators.

I will, however, express a broader regret. Thoughtless comments of the sort we saw detract from the valuable insights that come from the discussions we have in this remarkable community. There are many situations that I believed were worthy of considered discussion, but I did not post because of the inevitable horse... "radish." So it goes, I guess.

When you have an unsuccessful SAR episode, the best and most productive path is a clear and dispassionate analysis, followed by corrections and changes. The details and information necessary for this exercise are rarely, if ever, reported in the media. One can only hope that such an examination is underway and that future incidents will benefit from the insights gained.

My first SAR experience was basically a complete disaster. We all learned from that and got better (much, much better as a matter of fact). Eventually we critiqued each and every operation, successful or not. Sometimes you are just lucky and happy endings are not guaranteed.

Other then the normal post search debriefing, there will be nothing else to come of this. This search was one of the largest in decades in that area of BC and it was not for the lack of trying by the searchers. The SAR teams and over a 100 volunteers searched the area and the one man that was found alive was outside that area.

One last thing to mention, RCMP Constable Angela Rabut made this comment last week.

The growing use of social media as a communications and comment vehicle has added its own complications in adding to speculation about what may have happened, she added.

“When people read things online, somehow [they believe] it’s the truth,” Rabut said.

There is a lot of truth in that statement...

It is important to learn from experiences that do not turn out well.

It seems to me the real problem here was that somehow the SAR teams chose to search an area where the victims were not located. No matter how hard you search such an area, you won't find them.

I have often gone a little off trail when out hiking and it has occurred to me that even if my cell phone worked and I was able to call for help there are some places I could end up where I would be very hard to find, at least quickly.

A few weeks ago a guy offed himself not far from here. Hundreds of volunteers searched the area where he was known to be shortly before he vanished. He did not hide himself or anything. The outdoors is just immensely large and if you do not get a pair of eyes close enough to see the guy, you will miss him. Often you can't see 10 feet in some places. Searching such an area is tedious and very time consuming.

A couple of years ago a guy went missing here. He was gone for several weeks before being found. His car had run off a road and into a patch of woods. He was only about 30 feet off this very busy road that I drive on twice a day. I never saw his car. He was maybe 150 feet from an occupied house. They never noticed him. I don't recall how he got found, but it was random chance. He died of a heart attack IIRC.

Interesting thread (I've been traveling, with limited web access, so I'm just catching up). As I'm getting older, I'm no longer the best person for a "hasty team" (maybe I should join the "old slow guys" team?). Consequently I've been taking some training in SAR management. My comments are from that perspective.

Regarding ending a search without finding the subjects, that is probably the most difficult and painful decision a SAR manager can make. As Teslinhiker points out, resources are often limited, particularly in small and rural communities. In most areas by far the bulk of the search people are volunteers who are taking time off from their families, jobs, and other pursuits. Volunteers don't get paid for searching. How long can one ask people to do this, when there has been no apparent progress in finding the subject? Ask yourself how long you would be willing to continue searching for someone you don't even know?

When all the likely areas have been thoroughly searched without any clues being found, then what does the search manager do? In rugged or thick country there is always the possibility that they are still in the area, but no search team has been lucky enough to spot them. Do you continue to search the same areas repeatedly? Or perhaps you then conclude that they are outside the original search area? If you choose to expand the search area, then how far and in what direction? How big an area can you resonably hope to search with the limited resources available?

Finally, any search manager always has to keep in mind the possibility that the subject is nowhere near at all. They might have intentionally gone missing, and are now sitting on a beach in some foreign country sipping Piña Coladas. These case are thankfully rare, but they do happen.

Regarding ignoring clues, unfortunatelythat does happen sometimes. One of the issues is that those officials who have legal responsibility for SAR (RCMP, County Sheriffs, Alaska State Troopers, etc) generally have many other duties besides SAR. Searches make up only a small part of their responsibilites, and they aren't always well trained in how to handle these events in the early stages. Trained search managers often only get called in after the search is well underway, often for many days. Clues get lost or misinterpreted. Initial searchers (often untrained) sometimes unknowingly obscure or obliterate important clues. For anyone involved in SAR, either as a volunteer or an official, I would highly recomend some of the NASAR courses, such as FUNSAR or Managing the Lost Person Incident.

The bottom line is that we do the best we can with the resources we have available. Luck, both good and bad, always plays a part.

Some searches never end, they just fade away, as final leads and hypotheses are checked, sometimes long after the intensive phase has terminated. One such for me was the search for Paul Fugate, summarized here - http://www.nationalparkstraveler.com/2009/03/where-world-paul-fugate. We were following up new leads for months and years afterward. I would respond today if there were a new angle...

Our unit even took specialized mine rescue training in order to search the likely mine workings near Chiricahua National Monument. We learned, for instance, that a large signal mirror (repurposed medicine cabinet mirror) is a dandy tool for illuminating the dark corners of vertical mine shafts. We were interested in mine shafts since one likely scenario involved drug traffickers dumping his body in a mine. Or he may have skipped to Mexico. To this day,no one knows, although I think, looking at the available evidence, that he was offed by druggies.

Another such was Donald Lee Curtis, whose disappearance w in 1969 was reported by his hiking companion. They had separated on a trip in the Santa Catalina Mountains, and his companion, wildly hallucinatory, had no idea of where they had been. Thus the search area was the entire range, which is extensive and somewhat bumpy. Again,the operation lasted weeks and never really ended, since the secondary objective for the many succeeding searches in the range years later was Mr.Curtis, or what might have been left of him.

The confounding factor in this operation was that Curtis was due for induction in about two weeks after the date on which he disappeared. I don't believe this case has ever been resolved either.

When the initial hasty search doesn't turn up the victim, managers can employ multiple efforts. If a line search doesn't give a result, send in the dogs. Do a helicopter overflight. If those efforts are negative, expand the search area. Generally, if a search persisted beyond an initial 24 hour period, a quiet background check started. Did the subject have any problems, etc? Any withdrawals from bank accounts? You never know for sure...

AKSAR, don't let the accumulation of wisdom and experience keep you out of the field. It's not all speed and vigor. On several occasions, a stationary observer spotted our victim - little or no physical effort was involved. The kind of care required in doing an intensive sweep should be done at a slow, sedate pace - a lot like searching for archaeological material.

I have always been intrigued by the variety of talents and abilities that can contribute to SAR. Yes you do need raw physical power, but there are many many ways to contribute to a successful outcome.

"Regarding ignoring clues, unfortunatelythat does happen sometimes. One of the issues is that those officials who have legal responsibility for SAR (RCMP, County Sheriffs, Alaska State Troopers, etc) generally have many other duties besides SAR. "


I would be very unhappy if a SAR was not started when two SOS's were spotted and ignored and a family member or friend died.

RCMP messed up.

Sorry if some are thin skinned.