Seems to me after much study and little practice that there's a common principle that can be used here in a survival situation.

I've dug a couple Dakota holes, with unremarkable results. Wet soil sucks the heat out of a Dakota hole fire. But as I consider how I had seen a Dakota hole is supposed to be, I think maybe the idea of a rocket stove might make more sense in the future.

The idea of getting the fire to draft such that combustion is more complete (less smoke, more heat) has me reconsidering the way I will try and build the next Dakota hole fire. I think next time I will dig into a mound, or mound up my dirt around the chimney hole, and cut my draft hole at an angle, and so the opening is below the top of the chimney as much as possible, but within reason. It might take it a bit to get the burn chamber idea working in cold soil. But I bet once you get it drafting well, you should be able to build up quite a bit of cleaner heat.

Hmm, all this studying is giving me all sorts of ideas. I got a stovetec sitting in the garage and haven't tried it yet. Maybe I should consider playing around with that thing for a while. I wonder what happens if you make the chimney output hole longer. I bet it will improve combustion, up to a point that is.

It seems there are really two versions of rocket stoves. Those like my little stovetech, which are really just primary burn chambers with a horizontal feed, and a more robust design with something like a refractory chamber where the combustion gases get superheated and result in a more complete combustion. The little ones tend to make a lot more soot. Whereas the ones with the chamber tend to burn quite clean, produce more btus per fuel consumed, but are not altogether as portable.

I don't play with fire near enough these days. I used to be quite the pyro back in the day, but working at a desk has dimmed the spark a bit.

stovetec is a real rocket stove (Winiarski Rocket Stove), it has an insulated combustion chamber made from refractory ceramic -- they (aprovecho/stovetec) invented the rocketstoves


Dr. Larray Winiarski at ETHOS2012 Combustion and Heat Transfer in the Rocket Stove (pdf)

Test Results of Cook Stove Performance

When I have really, really needed the light and heat of a fire, I haven't had the time, energy, or inclination to mess around with a Dakota hole. Just assemble awind break and get the darn thing lit....

and I am a professional digger....

For anyone who doesn't know what a Dakota hole is or how to make one a good instructional link by survivaltopics.com is below:

http://survivaltopics.com/the-dakota-fire-hole/

a good reminder to me. the "dakota hole" was somewhere on my list of techniques to try out ... just didn't get around to it. i need to give it a try. the "benghazi stove" is on the same list - but requires some care :-)

Pete2

That's a good link. As I say, I want to construct one with a taller chimney, to see if the extra height will help improve combustion.

I am thinking that the diameter of the holes needs to be minimized as well, to aid with vortexing the draft and also improve the combustion process.

I'll have to give this a try sometime. If it works, then I won't have to worry about packing any sort of portable rocket stove all the time.

i hope that someone will take this topic and "run with it". it would be really helpful if someone spent some time digging Dakota firepits under various conditions, seeing when they work (and when they didn't), and then gave us a good summary.

the same thing applies to rocket stoves.

i'll try and do this for Benghazi stoves.

we need more posts on this forum where people take a very specific topic, run it to ground (with lots of tests), and report their results.

cheers,
Pete2

I'll do a little testing on both as time allows. I won't be able to dig up the backyard, but if I can get out in the woods a bit with some time, I will work on the Dakota hole idea. Rocket stoves is just getting some bricks and some stove pipe and a garbage can. I'll get supplies on payday. I'll have to round up some wood as well. Maybe I can scrounge around the woods here. It's been raining heavily all day today, and things are pretty sopped, but I got a few dry sticks in the garage.

I am quite pleased with my Ghillie Adventurer stove. It will boil 1.4 litres of water in 4-6 minutes using a stick of fatwood and some pine cones, twigs etc. It is very efficient and generates little smoke.

The fire base also makes an excellent wind shield when using a Trangia burner for conventional cooking. A 500ml Trangia fuel bottle fits nicely in the chimney along with fire tinder, fire steel, cook kit, pot grippers, Trangia burner and fatwood sticks etc when packed.



Using some Lumpwood charcoal at Kingsbarns beach at night to make some hot chocolate on an overnight fishing outing.

Dakota fire holes have limited use in Scotland due to the potential to start an underground peat fire.

I just need an additional cork and the kettle could also be used a 1.4 litre water bottle carrier as well.

Edit ...should have been 1.4 litres rather than 1.7 litres

What is the weight of the Ghillie Adventurer, unloaded?

The Hard Anodised Ghillie Kettle range

Adventurer = Capacity 1.4 Litres = 0.9 kg

Explorer = Capacity 1.0 Litres = 0.8 Kg

Maverick = Capacity 0.5 Litres = 0.6 Kg

I've just weighed the complete package of Ghillie Adventurer Kettle + Large Cook Kit (Comprising Sauce Pan + Fry Pat + Grill + Pot Lifter + pot support) + Trangia Burner + Full Trangia 500 ml of Methylated spirit bottle + fatwood + Tinder + Fire steel + Carry bag = 2.0 kg.

http://www.freewebstore.org/GhillieKettl...86_5017663.aspx

Domestically we have the Kelly Kettle:

Kelly Kettle at Beprepared.com

Same thing I guess.

I've never used either a Dakota pit fire or a rocket stove, but building a rocket stove is on our To Do List for the upcoming winter. Thanks for the info.

I have tried a few times to get a so called Dakota fire pit to work without any real success.

I suspect the problem was that the wind was not blowing from a consistent direction.

Well, Be Prepared won't ship to Alaska, like so many other distributors I have given up on. So I went direct to Kelly Kettle USA and order a big base camp model. Unlike my Scottish friend's Ghillie Kettle, the Kelly Kettle either comes in stainless steel or plain aluminum. No anodizing.

I got the big base camp model kit, with all the accessories. I also grabbed one of the scratch and dent models on the same order. When they came in, the scratch and dent had only a couple small dings in the outer wall. That's a huge discount for what is essentially insignificant.

So I walked the neighborhood today with the wife. We've had rain for the past couple weeks here, so all the duff is damp, but I scrounged up half a grocery sack full including a dozen or so little spruce cones that were surprisingly dry. So here's the video of me testing it out.

Kelly Kettle test

It took 8 minutes to get 1.5+ liters boiling. Please note the big mistake I made when setting the kettle on the firepan. The heat coming up out of that chimney took the hair off my hand instantly. But I did not burn myself.

This stove gets two big, singed thumbs up from me. I highly recommend getting one.

Very nice! I would love to pick up a Kelly Kettle myself. A little heavy for hiking but great for car camping or a base camp.

Actually, the pots aren't that bad on weight. Even in stainless it is not all that heavy, but they are bulky. They have a much smaller version that will hold 19 oz of liquid. If you get that one in aluminum, it is pretty lightweight, but still a bit on the bulky side depending on how small a pack you wanna use.

Kelly kettles are interesting gadgets, and I will probably get one someday. But they are hopelessly heavy and specialized for backpacking. NOthing beats the versatility of a simple pot and lid.

The Kelly Type Kettle in Hard Anodized Aluminium i.e. the Ghillie Adventurer which can boil 1.4 Litres in a similar time to a high power gas stove really isn't to heavy for backpacking. i.e. The Kettle with cooking pots etc weighs around 1200 grams.

Even a lightweight gas stove with a 450 gram cartridge will weigh around 750 grams. Add a Titanium Pot of a similar capacity will weigh around 140gms. 890 grams. With a 450 gram cartridge you can typically boil around 30-35 litres, with a windscreen, such as a titanium foil one @ 70grams you are now @ 960 grams.

The Kelly type kettle can also double up as a water sterilization device and as a water bottle so you can leave that 300 gram water filter and that 140 gram stainless steel water bottle behind as well. If fuel is easily available i.e. small twigs, feathered sticks, pine cones are readily available the Kelly type kettle would be very useful for wilderness trips greater than 7-10+ days. i.e. a longer term bug out situations let alone for home emergency and vehicle or even bicycle adventuring.

Good video. I'm tempted to pick one up and try it out this fall.

benjammin...thanks for the video...I'm not an outdoors person, so a large volume of hot water was not a requirement... I do like to fool around with gadgets, so when I encountered the topic of the Swiss Ranger Volcano stove a couple of years ago, picked up a pair ($20)... and as mentioned before, opened up the feed hole to accept first a Trangia stove, and later for a can of Sterno.. this gives me a heat source in my remain overnight kit for my car...the tapered sides of the .5L cup works similar to the Kettle as it also is heated by the stack heat... very light, and works with a variety of fuel sources... the scorching is from a paraffin, lamp wick stove reminiscent of what I used a half century ago in the Scouts...

I am not sure I would want to use a trangia burner, or sterno, for that matter , for heating of a car interior - carbon monoxide is just as insidious as it is deadly.
Even used for cooking, it is better to do it outside.