http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/americas/03/24/trapped.cavers/index.html

I heard a news report that they (the British Military) were looking for Uranium deposits. The trouble is they never told the Mexican Government.
The mystery is heightened by the fact that they have turned down all the assistance the Mexican authorities have offered, and are willing to wait a week or more till British rescuers arrive.
Trapped by heavy rain, one British rescuer said it might be a full week before they are all out safely. They must have gone in very well prepared for what was mean't to be a 36 hour expedition.

<< I heard a news report that they (the British Military) were looking for Uranium deposits. >>

In a dolomite formation??? Not at all likely, IMHO. Wrong geology AFAIK - any geologists here who can authoritatively comment? Besides, Canada and Australia have huge known deposits and the last I knew, the UK has pretty good relationships with both those countries, to say the least.

The Brits have been surveying these caves for ~ 30 years according to this:

"The area was first visited in the mid 1970's, when American,British and later Belgian cavers began exploration of the many stream sinks around the town. Between 1976 and 1980, over 35km of cave passage had been explored and surveyed. However, exploration in the area was abandoned, probably due to the fragmentation of survey data between the various groups. It was not until 1988 that interest in the area was rekindled when a small team from the British Northern Cave Club and Mexican cavers visited the area. The potential of the region was confirmed and over the following years numerous British expeditions have visited the area. The original discoveries of the 1970's have been resurveyed and the original system has been extended considerably. To date over 100km of cave passage has been explored and surveyed and each expedition returns with more leads for future exploration"

Perhaps the stated reason for being there is the true reason? But I'd be interested to hear more if that news report you heard expands into something larger.

Regards,

Tom

Tom, your apparent depth of knowledge in a wide range of subjects never ceases to impress me - but just for the record:
I'm no Geologist! I was merely rehashing the rantings of some BBC journalist, who probably didn't know the facts himself.
However if there was a military presence, there is likely to be a "scientific" side to the expedition - according to the BBC and I believe the GB Government. The truth will out in due course no doubt.
Just so you know I wasn't waffling, I refer you to the report below, especially the last comment on the final paragragh, just above where you can enter a comment.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3563195.stm

eeee! Martin, I never meant to imply that you were waffling! BTW, that second article is pretty interesting to me - IMO the MOD folks should have let the Mexican Government know they were going to have some folks playing around there.

The radioactives speculation seems to have originated with "local media" according to your article. What a surprise (not). Ummm... the best of the media folks I've dealt with over the years are fairly well grounded and willing to research what they don't know. Like any profession, the "best" are not representative of the "breed" in my experiences. Of course, the 5:00PM news reporter doesn't have the time to do much research before "reporting".

As for the rest of it - I barely know enough about anything to be mildy dangerous. Hence, "Is there a geologist in the house?"

The caving crew does seem to be well-provisioned - almost "professional", eh? Good for them. Thanks for the read - this is interesting.

Regards,

Tom

Dolomite mines, maybe they're looking for another one of the crystal skulls (or maybe I've just been reading the Phantom too much lately).

Up here, dolomite is a good place to find non gem quality opal etc. I wonder what they are up to??? <img src="images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Maybe I'm being naive, but it seems to me like a simple case of somebody dropping the ball.

There's quite a long history of collaboration between the Royal Geographical Society and the British military, if I'm not mistaken. (Weren't the members of the Scott expedition serving officers in the army?) Maybe the army just assumed the RGS would fully inform the Mexican authorities of what was happening, and the RGS just didn't think, in this day of heightened security awareness, to advise their hosts that the bulk of their scientific expedition was made up of military personnel.

I don't think anyone on this forum should be expressing surprise at explorers carrying a week's worth of supplies for what was "supposed" to be a 2 day trip; being prepared for the unexpected is what this web site is all about, after all <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

As far as refusing assistance from the Mexican authorities, I can think of several benign explanations:

1. They're a bunch of macho paratroopers who aren't about to let anyone except their own mates rescue them;

2. They don't feel it's a true emergency situation (hence, no need to mount a S&R operation);

3. They don't want to end up getting billed $500K for something they're perfectly capable of handling themselves;

4. They think they're better equipped to handle it than the local rescue teams; and/or

5. They feel they got themselves into it, and they don't want to endanger someone else's lives because of their foul-up.

Granted, there are other explanations, not so benign. But it sounds as if the Mexican authorities are going to investigate those.

IMO, most likely, the British government is going to issue an official "so sorry, it won't happen again" apology, the Mexican government will issue a "that's okay, we all make mistakes" acceptance statement, and some Brit soldiers are going to get their wrists slapped behind closed doors when they get home. <img src="images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I think this is a misunderstanding that has been blown out of it's deserved proportions. The people involved were members of a recreational club organised by members of the British army - this is true. For this expedition however they were just travelling "as civilians" and not on any sort of official training expedition. Presumably all of the paperwork etc. was presented on this basis.

The entrance to this particular cave system was known to have a vulnerability to flash flooding and this contingency would have been planned for which is why the food etc. was available.

Cave diving is a very specialized activity and over the years has had a spectacularly high death rate even amongst experienced cave divers. This is why the British team were willing to wait for the two British divers - one had previous experience of diving in this particular cave and the second was also highly experienced. Since they had the capacity to wait it out there was no need to rush and better to wait for experienced divers than risk the deaths of less experienced rescuers.

I take your point. I think all of us love a good conspiracy story, which is why the story is still running.
Just in case you haven't heard, the cavers are now been held in jail for more questoining, and to give the Mexican authorities time to analysis the laptops and other equipment they were carrying.
Holiday or unofficial scouting expedition, the Mexicans ain't happy, and are holding the cavers on the basis that they broke the terms of thier visas. The paperwork doesn't sound like its in order at all.

...and still sticking with the uranium "theory", which AFAIK is a complete crock, yet now President Fox is mouthing it. EDIT See http://tinyurl.com/2e8sa and read it carefully a couple of times. (Martin, I love that BBC link - keep 'em coming!) END EDIT

My rant continues:

I suspect that at worst case, the cavers were required to monitor for radon. Britain apparently has some strict guidelines about that for underground work and I bet the military cavers association sticks to any and all governmental rules and regulations.

I imagine that this whole thing is at most "Adventure Training" as far as the MoD is concerned but that the current Mexican administration deliberately mis-construes that as spec ops military training/recon for pure political gain. The whole nonsense is fascinating on several levels in a disgusting sort of way.

I still haven't heard a geologist speak up one way or another, but setting science aside for a moment, the political realities of Britain looking for uranium in Mexico seem so absurd as to be completely unbelievable to me. Is the anglophobia expressed by the local media and the administration any clue? Why would the Brits prospect in that sort of geo-political climate?

BTW, I previously assumed it was a dolomite formation; a moments research turned up the info that it is apparently limestone; actually two separate limestones - a hair-splitting difference as far as uranium ore is concerned. Somebody is probably full of bat guano...

As I said previously, I'm not a geologist, but the uranium prospecting allegation - in a solution cave complex - raised all kinds of red flags in my tiny and cluttered store of knowledge. Yes, there could be some; uranium in detectable quantities is virtually everywhere on the planet; you cannot get away from it. Maybe there is some in the igneous/metemorphic conglomerate underneath the limestone formation or in some sandstone formations, but... I think that it will be scientifically and economically insignificant for a number of reasons.

I await the facts; I could be completely wrong; but I'm not holding my breath. I bet this flap is mostly an anti-Iraqi war slap to the British Government's face and nothing more. British cavers have been mapping those caves for 30 years - all of a sudden it's an international incident? Bah!

The Twilight Zone has suddenly moved to a location south of the US border, centered on Mexico City... and the "survival lesson" that I'm learning from this is that we are living in really wacky times right now.

(Chris K - this thread should be moved to the Campfire forum; it stopped having any survival merits as soon as the political lunacy began. Not withstanding that, I'm grateful for Martin for starting the thead - the political antics are fascinating to me.)

Skeptically,

Tom