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#262542 - 08/16/13 03:23 PM Another bear post...
Andy Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 378
Loc: SE PA
But one with a mostly happy ending, everyone survived, including the bear.

Bear attack in Yellowstone

My DD is currently supervising a salmon survey crew on Prince William Sound. In bear prone areas at least two of the six crew members carry shotguns as well as bear spray. You don't mess with bears eating or protecting their cubs.
_________________________
In a crisis one does not rise to one's level of expectations but rather falls to one's level of training.

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#262556 - 08/17/13 03:06 AM Re: Another bear post... [Re: Andy]
Phaedrus Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3162
Loc: Big Sky Country
Sounds like it ended up as well as can be hoped. Chalk up a 'save' for bear spray!
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“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman

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#262581 - 08/18/13 06:26 PM Re: Another bear post... [Re: Andy]
jshannon Offline
Addict

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 647
Loc: North Texas

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#262598 - 08/19/13 02:54 PM Re: Another bear post... [Re: jshannon]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3238
Loc: Alberta, Canada


I saw this one too. Just unbelievable. No amount of eco-sympathy and karma points will prevent a polar bear from hunting you for food. When the parks department recommends hiring an armed local hunter for bear safety, you think people would have the wit to do so.

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#262601 - 08/19/13 05:38 PM Re: Another bear post... [Re: Andy]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1185
Loc: Channeled Scablands
" Also nice to see two cans of bear spray both used successfully."

Depends on your version of success.

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#262602 - 08/19/13 05:56 PM Re: Another bear post... [Re: Andy]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1185
Loc: Channeled Scablands
"She tried running from the bear but it caught her, dropped her to the ground, and scraped and clawed at her, she said. So she tried petting it, but "that did not work, so then it just got me again."
Then she played dead -- and the bear walked away."

When bears attack: 7 people mauled by bears in recent days
http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/19/us/bear-attacks/
--

Chalk up a save for playing dead.

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#262611 - 08/19/13 09:18 PM Re: Another bear post... [Re: dougwalkabout]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
They apparently didn't follow the advice in their own brochure:

"Learn the special considerations for bear country. Contact the local public land agencies for advice and resources"- this is in their section on LNT principles.

I get it that firearms would be contrary to the conservationist ethic of the Sierra Club, and in general I am sympathetic to their principles. Polar bears, however, are a rather different breed of cat (or rather, ursid). It makes perfect sense to me to carry a twelve gauge in PB country, along with a full complement of slug loads - not to be used immediately, but available when necessary.

I understand that classically polar bears and native Inuit were in a state of mutual predation - "Let us prey" so to speak....
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Geezer in Chief

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#262612 - 08/19/13 09:26 PM Re: Another bear post... [Re: Andy]
Phaedrus Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3162
Loc: Big Sky Country
This would probably really tick off the Sierra Clubbers, but I know an older native Alaskan with lots of bear experience that says #9 is what he uses. He would never shoot a bear unless it couldn't be avoided but he asserts that a blast of birdshot in the face of the bear ends things fast. Yes, this technique does require some follow up on the part of the shooter...finishing off the bear.

At any rate, don't use your birdshot on the messenger! whistle I'm just relaying the words of an old timer that's dealt with bears for 45 years or so.

BTW, every bear attack story I see in the news calls them "anomolies",no matter how many there are. The old Alaskan bear guy says not as anomolous as you think, FWIW.
_________________________
“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman

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#262621 - 08/20/13 03:12 AM Re: Another bear post... [Re: Phaedrus]
AKSAR Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: Phaedrus
....... I know an older native Alaskan with lots of bear experience that says #9 is what he uses. He would never shoot a bear unless it couldn't be avoided but he asserts that a blast of birdshot in the face of the bear ends things fast. ..... I'm just relaying the words of an old timer that's dealt with bears for 45 years or so.

Phaedrus,
I don't mean to diss your friend, but even allegedly experienced old timers sometimes give bogus advice. (For example there are still people around who will tell you to drink whiskey in cold weather to keep warm.) In my opinion your friend was giving you very bad advice.

The virtually unamimous advice from bear hunting guides, biologists, and others with experience shooting bears is that if you choose to carry a firearm for bear protection you should:
1. Try to avoid getting in situations where you need to shoot.
2. Carry the most powerful gun you can shoot very well.
3. Practice until you are extremely proficient with that gun!
4. Select heavy solid bullets with good penetration.
5. If you must shoot, shoot to kill.
6. If you wound a bear, you must follow it into the brush and make sure it is dead.

Back in 1983 the USFS in SE Alaska did a study to determine the most appropriate firearms for USFS employess to carry for bear protection. That study needs to be updated, since there are many more gun and bullet options now, but the basic recommendations are still valid.

Bear hunting guides sometimes have to go into the "pucker brush" to finish off a bear wounded by a client. Some have been known to carry the 458 Winchester Magnum. The 375 H & H Magnum and the 338 Winchester Magnum are popular bear hunting rifles. The minimum rifle that most would recommend for bear protection would be a 30-06 with heavy bullets (220 gr).

A 12 gauge pump shotgun with an 18 inch barrel, loaded with rifled slugs, is also a good choice for bear protection. These guns have good penetration, are fast to bring into action, point well, and can be fired rapidly. (Note however that buckshot is not considered a good ammo choice by knowledgable persons.)

Handguns are severly lacking in power (relative to rifles and 12 gauge), but are easier to carry and can be fast to bring into action. If you opt for a handgun for bear protection a 44 Magnum with hot loaded solids is the minimum. However, in my experience, many people carrying 44 Mags don't practice nearly enough with them and aren't skilled enough with big handguns to rely on them for bear protection. In my opinion, many of those folks would be better served by carrying a 12 gauge with slugs.
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"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz

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#262632 - 08/20/13 03:50 PM Re: Another bear post... [Re: AKSAR]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1185
Loc: Channeled Scablands
The forest service study had more to do with bullet construction than caliber. Some of the more powerful guns were down rated because the bullet came apart.

Also note the deep penetration the old colt 45's and 45-70's had. Energy was
less, but penetration was good.

Cherry pick and you get these results.

Colt 45 handgun penetration 14.3"
338 winchester mag rifle 14.7"

45-70 17.8"
460 Wthby Mag 17.2"

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