#261877 - 07/16/13 01:52 PM
Re: Air Crash Survival
[Re: AKSAR]
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Carpal Tunnel
_00544-1061044638.png)
Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2986
Loc: Nacogdoches, Texas
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This is something I've only heard so I can't verify it.
The safest means of transportation is a submarine. Excluding times of war, there have been fewer deaths (if there are statistics I have to assume a number of deaths per 1,000 travelers) involving a submarine than with any other means of transportation.
Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
I'm not sure whose twisted idea it was to put hundreds of adolescents in underfunded schools run by people whose dreams were crushed years ago, but I admire the sadism. -- Wednesday Adams, Wednesday
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#261878 - 07/16/13 02:14 PM
Re: Air Crash Survival
[Re: unimogbert]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2986
Loc: Nacogdoches, Texas
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A friend in the FAA who says that he believes his son will probably fly on airliners that have no pilot. The backup for the autpilot will be a flight attendant who has some simulator time to be able to land the plane if needed(maybe).
Considering that pilot error really is a major contributor to the remaining accident rate, it's a logical step to remove the pilot from the cockpit and substitute Windows Autopilot 1.0 instead. (and we all know just how error-free software is.... right?)
But you won't find ME on one of those flights!
It does not matter if the plane is flown my a Macintosh. Electronic devices fail. There needs to be an experienced pilot who can turn the computer off and fly the plane. Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
I'm not sure whose twisted idea it was to put hundreds of adolescents in underfunded schools run by people whose dreams were crushed years ago, but I admire the sadism. -- Wednesday Adams, Wednesday
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#261879 - 07/16/13 02:31 PM
Re: Air Crash Survival
[Re: AKSAR]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
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Stats of safety do not calm my nerves. When I'm driving, I feel like I have a fair amount of control over my safety. I can be extra attentive, check my tire pressure, leave space in front of me, choose not to ride a motorcycle, etc. In a plane, ship, train, or a submarine, I have to completely relinquish my control to others. If something dangerous starts to happen, I have little or no control over my fate. I can't steer into the skid or whatever. That is what is troublesome. By the way, I'm sure if submarine travels were as congested as the I-5 in L.A., the safety stats there would plummet.
_________________________
If you're reading this, it's too late.
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#261880 - 07/16/13 02:40 PM
Re: Air Crash Survival
[Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
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Geezer
Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
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A friend in the FAA who says that he believes his son will probably fly on airliners that have no pilot. The backup for the autpilot will be a flight attendant who has some simulator time to be able to land the plane if needed(maybe).
Considering that pilot error really is a major contributor to the remaining accident rate, it's a logical step to remove the pilot from the cockpit and substitute Windows Autopilot 1.0 instead. (and we all know just how error-free software is.... right?)
But you won't find ME on one of those flights!
It does not matter if the plane is flown my a Macintosh. Electronic devices fail. There needs to be an experienced pilot who can turn the computer off and fly the plane. Jeanette Isabelle IMO the problem at the core of the Asiana crash is that the pilots weren't doing their job(s) watching the automatic systems to make sure they were functioning correctly. At least two of the pilots should have been watching as the airspeed dropped below the 157 kt target speed and immediately asked themselves "WTH, why?" That the auto-throttle wasn't properly engaged or working correctly should have been fixed before the plane slowed to 150kts, not when the stall warning started shaking the pedals. Airspeed/Vertical speed (I assume the 777 has a VSI)/Altitude -- that the aircraft became too low and too slow tells me there was massive complacence or incompetence in the cockpit -- probably a bit of both. You can call that crew coordination or whatever term the NTSB prefers, but all this talk about blaming automatic systems is BS; the pilots' primary job in these large aircraft is to ensure those systems are working and to watch as the airspeed is what it should be and the altitude is safe. If the auto-throttle wasn't working the flight crew should have gone to manual and maintained airspeed the old fashioned way. Otherwise Jeanette's Mac may as well occupy those seats which have a really good view of the crash site.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??
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#261882 - 07/16/13 03:51 PM
Re: Air Crash Survival
[Re: Lono]
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Veteran
Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
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..... Those passengers were lucky as hell to survive.... While certainly luck always plays a role, it is also true that your odds of surviving a crash have been getting much better over the years. This is due to mandated changes in aircraft design to improve crash survivability. Asiana crash: Improved technology, standards, and training likely saved livesNearly all passengers and crew survived the Asiana crash – 305 of the 307 people onboard – and more than a third were able to leave without hospitalization. .......
The statistics aren’t a rarity in the world of recent plane crashes. As The Wall Street Journal notes, “Everyone survived a 2008 Continental Airlines flight that veered off a Denver runway in high winds, splitting the body of the jet in two. Two passengers died in August 2010 when an Aires Boeing 737 landed short in bad weather at a Caribbean island, also splitting the passenger cabin into pieces. In April, a newly delivered Lion Air Boeing 737 crashed in poor visibility short of a runway in Bali, Indonesia; all 108 people aboard survived.”
Also remember the "Miracle on the Hudson" crash, where everyone survived without serious injury. In the late 1980s, regulators required that all new passenger planes have seats able to withstand impacts that thrust them forward at 16 times the force of gravity. In 2005 the Federal Aviation Administration ordered the standard be applied to almost all passenger planes by October 2009. A Boeing spokesman told The Wall Street Journal that the company has been delivering all its jets with 16-G-rated seats since 2009.
---------------snip-------------
Other technological advances included better materials for the fuselage, Todd Curtis, a former safety engineer with Boeing and now a director of the Airsafe.com Foundation, told The Washington Post. "It may have been worse if that fuselage had been designed with practices that were common 20 or 30 years prior." Other articles have discussed how much stronger the fuselage is in today's aircraft. Mr. Hansman told USA Today that a crucial safety requirement is that airlines must certify they can get passengers off a plane within 90 seconds in an emergency, even if half the doors and escape slides are blocked. But getting people to leave their luggage and laptops can be a problem, Hansman said.
------------------snip----------------
The use of better fire-resistant materials on seats and other parts of the cabin also contribute to fires burning with less intensity at first, allowing crucial time for evacuation, according to Hiatt of the Flight Safety Foundation.
Note that even with the delay in ordering evacuation, all the passengers were able to get out before the aircraft burned. Some crashes are not survivable, for example if your plane flys straight into cumulo granite clouds, everyone will die instantly. However, the vast majority of crashes are during take off and landing. Better aircraft design, together with your own awareness of how to survive, greatly improve your odds over what they were even 10 years ago.
_________________________
"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz
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#261887 - 07/16/13 08:57 PM
Re: Air Crash Survival
[Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
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This is something I've only heard so I can't verify it.
The safest means of transportation is a submarine. Excluding times of war, there have been fewer deaths (if there are statistics I have to assume a number of deaths per 1,000 travelers) involving a submarine than with any other means of transportation. Have you seen 'Das Boot'? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iMWb8nEOG4
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#261889 - 07/16/13 10:06 PM
Re: Air Crash Survival
[Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
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Old Hand
Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 882
Loc: Colorado
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This is something I've only heard so I can't verify it.
The safest means of transportation is a submarine. Excluding times of war, there have been fewer deaths (if there are statistics I have to assume a number of deaths per 1,000 travelers) involving a submarine than with any other means of transportation.
Jeanette Isabelle This is kind of a silly example because the vast majority of subs ever built weren't really personnel transportation systems. They are weapons delivery systems which require humans to operate them. And I suspect that non-catastrophic accident data is very hard to come by. For instance, I nearly collided with a sailboat while coming to periscope depth one night. But there was no contact between vessels and no newspaper reported the near-miss so no one but me (the guy looking thru the periscope)had any reason to be afraid. And the peacetime record is not zero. Collisions have killed some people and sank some smaller ships..... (I was a Submariner)
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#261890 - 07/16/13 10:27 PM
Re: Air Crash Survival
[Re: unimogbert]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2986
Loc: Nacogdoches, Texas
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I know there have been peace time fatal submarine accidents. As I said, this is something I heard.
Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
I'm not sure whose twisted idea it was to put hundreds of adolescents in underfunded schools run by people whose dreams were crushed years ago, but I admire the sadism. -- Wednesday Adams, Wednesday
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#261910 - 07/17/13 06:03 PM
Re: Air Crash Survival
[Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
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Old Hand
Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
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Ho Li Kao! Tu Dam Funi! They forgot to name the flight safety officer: Ka Plu Yi 
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