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#261720 - 07/10/13 04:00 AM Re: Pepper spray and wolf attack [Re: benjammin]
AKSAR Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: benjammin
Once an animal has decided to attack, pepper spray is really useless.

This is flat not true. Pepper spray has been used successfully on numerous occasions to ward off bear attacks.

The myth that pepper spray doesn't work is quite popular among a certain segment of the population, but a recent analysis of 83 incidents of use of bear spray ("Efficacy of Bear Deterrent Spray in Alaska") showed it to be highly effective.

See also Rick Sinnot's article for more on popular myths regarding bears. Sinnot is a bear biologist recently retired from the Alaska Department of Fish and Game. Over the years he has investigated numerous bear-human encounters in Alaska.
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"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz

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#261721 - 07/10/13 04:48 AM Re: Pepper spray and wolf attack [Re: AKSAR]
jzmtl Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/18/10
Posts: 530
Loc: Montreal Canada
Originally Posted By: AKSAR
Originally Posted By: benjammin
Once an animal has decided to attack, pepper spray is really useless.



Could it depends on what type of spray you have? Like ours can only has 1% legally, which I'm sure works more like appetizer to the attacking animal.

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#261722 - 07/10/13 06:38 AM Re: Pepper spray and wolf attack [Re: jzmtl]
AKSAR Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: jzmtl
Could it depends on what type of spray you have? Like ours can only has 1% legally, which I'm sure works more like appetizer to the attacking animal.

Legally the EPA requires that the pepper concentration be between 1% and 2% for bear spray. Any products labeled and sold as "Bear Spray" in the US will be within this range. As indicated in links I posted upthread, this concentration has been shown to be effective by actual experience.
Quote:
From the Be Bear Aware Website:

Currently the EPA requires that the concentration of Capsaicin and related capsaicinoids range between 1 and 2.0%. The variance in potency within this range is negligible, and all will affect the eyes, nose, throat and lungs of a bear. The minimum size can the EPA will register currently is 7.9 ounces, or 225 grams.
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"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz

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#261723 - 07/10/13 08:12 AM Re: Pepper spray and wolf attack [Re: clearwater]
Phaedrus Online   content
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3164
Loc: Big Sky Country
Sounds like a scary ordeal! I'm glad the rider was unharmed, and I echo the sentiment that in a situation like that I'd be happy to be carrying one of my HK's stoked with 16 rounds of 147gr Federal HST 9mm ammo!
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“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman

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#261730 - 07/10/13 01:25 PM Re: Pepper spray and wolf attack [Re: clearwater]
gonewiththewind Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1517
I had a pet wolf, long story but gave him a chance rather than see him killed outright. Bicycles and motorcycles caused a strong reaction in him that made him try to chase them. I could keep him under control, but it was difficult. That is the only time that he was difficult to manage. No other stimuli sparked anything similar to how he reacted to these two things.

I agree with Aksar that the strange part of the story is how the wolf stayed at the bike even when there were more people around. The wild wolves I have seen have all been very shy, curious but shy. I have encountered them alone and on foot in remote areas and never felt threatened by them. The fast moving bike could resemble normal prey, but they seem to recognize humans as different. Maybe it is the fast movement that sparks the hunting instinct.

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#261731 - 07/10/13 02:06 PM Re: Pepper spray and wolf attack [Re: gonewiththewind]
Outdoor_Quest Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/17/09
Posts: 305
Loc: Central Oregon
How long did you have the wolf? Good experience?

My take is that there is a lot we have to learn about wolves as their populations rebound.

Very interesting story from the SPOKESMAN.



Edited by Outdoor_Quest (07/10/13 02:14 PM)

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#261732 - 07/10/13 02:16 PM Re: Pepper spray and wolf attack [Re: clearwater]
Glock-A-Roo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
Another point about this story: the bicyclist was spraying while moving, at a moving target. Who knows what the wind was doing. Odds are low that he scored a solid face hit on the wolf. It was folly to think that just a 'hint in the air' of pepper spray would have repelled the wolf.

I still would have wanted a gun.

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#261733 - 07/10/13 02:53 PM Re: Pepper spray and wolf attack [Re: clearwater]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1185
Loc: Channeled Scablands
Here is from one of the commenters.

"Susan Rogan • 14 hours ago &#8722;
A friend of ours, just north of Whitehorse, in the Yukon, had a tour out and a wolf showed up in their camp and killed one of the sled dogs right in front of them, then stuck around trying to yank it off the gangline to pull it away. The wolf would NOT leave, even when Rod tried to chase it away with a skidoo. He then realized there were about 4 more wolves watching. The whole group got together around the fire, with the dogs, and they got out the sat phone to call for back up. All the wolves left as soon as the girl showed up on the second skidoo. The reason I am posting twice with stories is that I believe the wolves at least in the Yukon are becoming more bold, and I am not the only one who thinks this. I like wolves just as I like bears, but I am much more wary of them than most people are. Most seem to enjoy seeing wolves while they are out on trails. I get extremely, well, I'll admit it, they scare me. I have run into them a few times out there with dog teams as well. None have attacked me though. (But my dog was killed..)"

"I was chased by a wolf while skijoring. It grabbed one of my dogs from behind me, (a loose dog). I turned back, yelled at the wolf and it left the dog alone. She (Emma), jumped and ran. The wolf then followed me and my other four dogs, one of whom was older and loose. It followed me all the way to our yard 6 km outside Atlin BC, which is 160 km from Whitehorse, Yukon. I believe every word of this encounter, as described. I was banging my poles together, hitting overhanging branches to drop snow on the ground, and was very glad to finally get back to the yard. I believe it was the same wolf that killed one of our dogs about a month later, 500 feet behind the house."

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#261734 - 07/10/13 03:15 PM Re: Pepper spray and wolf attack [Re: Glock-A-Roo]
AKSAR Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: Glock-A-Roo
Another point about this story: the bicyclist was spraying while moving, at a moving target ......... I still would have wanted a gun.

Note that even if you had a gun, you would still be faced with the same problem of shooting at a moving target, while you are also moving, furiously pumping the peddles of your bike. A rather challenging shot, to say the least.
_________________________
"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz

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#261736 - 07/10/13 03:35 PM Re: Pepper spray and wolf attack [Re: clearwater]
gonewiththewind Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1517
In response to Outdoor Quest: I do not believe in making pets of wild animals. I took the wolf in from a military that was transferring overseas and could not take it. The wolf was the most intelligent animal I have ever dealt with, it took discipline well and learned everything very quickly. When I took it for walks around the neighborhood (or rather when it dragged me around the neighborhood) and we encountered other dogs, it was clearly acknowledged by other dogs as dominant. It did not deal well with groups of people but never showed any aggression except with bikes and motorcycles, and other dogs. He killed and ate the neighbor's dog one night (first time my wife had visited my house!) and I put him down. He weighed more than 100 pounds, was large and strong. He did accept my domination without a problem and the relationship between us was good. There were too many children in the area and I could not take a chance. Wild animals are wild, and should be left that way.

To Clearwater: I can see how the wolves in that area could become more aggressive and lose their fear of people. It only stands to reason. More contact and intrusion into their habitat, along with a reduction in their normal prey must have an impact. The ones I have seen were in national parks and were not so pressured by human habitation or disruptions in their food supply. I respect wildlife, and enjoy watching them, but do not try to interact with them in any way. The human population in Alaska and BC is growing and building further and further into the "wilderness". Domestic dogs do seem to incite aggression in wolves as well. Maybe they are viewed as a threat, or maybe they are viewed with prejudice by the wolves, I don't know.

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