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#259079 - 04/14/13 03:14 AM Single Hand Quick Release Reusable Pneumatic Tourn
ILBob Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 776
Loc: Northern IL
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#259084 - 04/14/13 09:17 AM Re: Single Hand Quick Release Reusable Pneumatic Tourn [Re: ILBob]
K9medic Offline
Stranger

Registered: 11/12/12
Posts: 14
Loc: UK
It looks very similar to the ones used when giving an injection / putting in an IV. If it is, it won’t get enough pressure to stop a major bleed.

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#259089 - 04/14/13 01:11 PM Re: Single Hand Quick Release Reusable Pneumatic Tourn [Re: K9medic]
ILBob Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 776
Loc: Northern IL
Originally Posted By: K9medic
It looks very similar to the ones used when giving an injection / putting in an IV. If it is, it won’t get enough pressure to stop a major bleed.


I think you might well be right.
_________________________
Warning - I am not an expert on anything having to do with this forum, but that won't stop me from saying what I think. smile

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#259105 - 04/14/13 10:46 PM Re: Single Hand Quick Release Reusable Pneumatic Tourn [Re: ILBob]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3842
Loc: USA
The CAT is also an excellent option. That's what I have in my kits.

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#259106 - 04/14/13 10:48 PM Re: Single Hand Quick Release Reusable Pneumatic Tourn [Re: ILBob]
gonewiththewind Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1517
CAT is great. They are also plentiful and inexpensive in my area.

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#259111 - 04/15/13 01:40 AM Re: Single Hand Quick Release Reusable Pneumatic Tourn [Re: ]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Have any of us needed to apply a tourniquet to an injury after direct pressure didn't work, outside of a battlefield situation? I am curious, because of the few hundred SAR incidents I have been involved in, we have never applied a T. I can understand that battlefield injuries are a different situation, but I suspect that most civilian situations are easier to control. Direct pressure has always done the job in my experience.
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#259113 - 04/15/13 02:34 AM Re: Single Hand Quick Release Reusable Pneumatic Tourn [Re: hikermor]
Glock-A-Roo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
Originally Posted By: hikermor
...because of the few hundred SAR incidents I have been involved in, we have never applied a T... Direct pressure has always done the job in my experience.


How many of those incidents involved an arterial bleed?

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#259128 - 04/15/13 12:50 PM Re: Single Hand Quick Release Reusable Pneumatic Tourn [Re: ]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3842
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: IzzyJG99
The SWAT-T is basically the CAT with a few minor improvements.


I don't think that's what you meant. The CAT and the SOF-T are pretty similar in appearance and operation. The SWAT-T is quite different and not easily applied one-handed.

Where the SWAT-T works for me is in my laptop bag, where it's cheap, multipurpose and much better than nothing in a low-threat environment. I have a CAT with the trauma kit I carry at the range. When I'm serving as an RSO I'd much rather prevent someone from getting hurt. If Plan A fails I'd like to be able to keep them alive to get them to the professionals.

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#259129 - 04/15/13 02:05 PM Re: Single Hand Quick Release Reusable Pneumatic Tourn [Re: Glock-A-Roo]
hikermor Offline
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Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Good question - not sure,precisely - perhaps 10 to 15. Om at least a couple of occasions we started IVs to compensate for lost blood - one was a major amputation (arm). Direct pressure worked nearly always; a couple of times we did use pressure points.

One feature of my experience is a major amount of lag time between the injury and the arrival of responders. Even with prompt notification, the interval is likely to be an hour or more.

One point I would make is that, when space and weight are critical, don't bother carrying a specialized T. Use your bandanna and a stick.

Who has actually deployed a tourniquet?


Edited by hikermor (04/15/13 02:08 PM)
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#259137 - 04/15/13 05:40 PM Re: Single Hand Quick Release Reusable Pneumatic Tourn [Re: ILBob]
paramedicpete Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1920
Loc: Frederick, Maryland
There is no pneumatic aspect of this "tourniquet". Basically an elastic constricting band with a release buckle.

Pete

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#259140 - 04/15/13 07:43 PM Re: Single Hand Quick Release Reusable Pneumatic Tourn [Re: hikermor]
Glock-A-Roo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
Originally Posted By: hikermor
Have any of us needed to apply a tourniquet to an injury after direct pressure didn't work, outside of a battlefield situation? I am curious, because of the few hundred SAR incidents I have been involved in, we have never applied a T. I can understand that battlefield injuries are a different situation, but I suspect that most civilian situations are easier to control. Direct pressure has always done the job in my experience.


Here's a stateside civilian example of why it may be wise to have a good tourniquet and the training to use it. Note the blood on the sidewalk; early reports say "I saw people's legs blown off".

Double Explosion at Boston Marathon

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#259169 - 04/16/13 05:44 AM Re: Single Hand Quick Release Reusable Pneumatic Tourn [Re: hikermor]
Alan_Romania Offline

Addict

Registered: 06/29/05
Posts: 648
Loc: Arizona
I have used a tourniquet a number of times in non-combat situations. Once was for a gun shot wound, one was for a suicide attempt and the remainder were for injuries of non-violent causations.

Tourniquets one of those things that when you need one, you really need one! As many have mentions CAT and SOF-T tourniquets are the standard for commercial tourniquets. You can't go wrong with either one, the only makor difference is the SOF-T has a metal windlass and the CAT's is plastic. That being said, I don't carry either of those.

My favorite tourniquet is the McMillian Tourniquet. Having used a all of the tourniquets mentioned in this post on a real patient (except the SOF-T, which I have used in training) the McMillian Tourniquet is as easy to use as the others and is much more durable than the others.

Now, the tourniquet I carry the most offen is the TK-4L, it is a pretty simple elastic design but it actually works. I have heard and read a lot of complaints about the TK-4 and the TK-4L but very few of those who don't like them have actually used them or tested them in a realistic tests. I would rather have a CAT or a McMillian, but you can't beat the TK-4L for size and price. These are cheap and compact enough to keep in just about any kit.
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#259296 - 04/18/13 03:41 AM Re: Single Hand Quick Release Reusable Pneumatic Tourn [Re: ILBob]
Alan_Romania Offline

Addict

Registered: 06/29/05
Posts: 648
Loc: Arizona
An article about tourniquets and the Boston Maraton Bombing...

Quote:
The 9-year-old girl also was in bad shape and singed. "Whoever got to her first saved her life" by putting on a tourniquet, Mooney said. "If they hadn't done that, she would have died."


"Without Tourniquets, Many Wouldn't Have Survived" Firehouse.com
_________________________
"Trust in God --and press-check. You cannot ignore danger and call it faith." -Duke

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#259300 - 04/18/13 04:50 AM Re: Single Hand Quick Release Reusable Pneumatic Tourn [Re: Alan_Romania]
Glock-A-Roo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
Originally Posted By: Alan_Romania
I would rather have a CAT or a McMillian, but you can't beat the TK-4L for size and price. These are cheap and compact enough to keep in just about any kit.


Same here. I have CATs and SOFTT-Wides in my dedicated kits but the TK4 is hard to beat for ultra compactness. I have some trouble applying a SWAT-T with one hand, and I suspect it would be tougher with blood on everything. I find the TK4 to be easier to apply one handed.

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#259315 - 04/18/13 12:31 PM Re: Single Hand Quick Release Reusable Pneumatic Tourn [Re: Alan_Romania]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Thank you, for a most informative and enlightening post. One has to wonder, in view of the massive casualties in Waco and Boston, if at some point it wasn't necessary to resort to improvised Ts?
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#259320 - 04/18/13 03:08 PM Re: Single Hand Quick Release Reusable Pneumatic Tourn [Re: hikermor]
AKSAR Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: hikermor
One has to wonder, in view of the massive casualties in Waco and Boston, if at some point it wasn't necessary to resort to improvised Ts?

Several acconts in the media referred to people in Boston using belts and other items to improvise tourniquets. From the New York Times article "Doctors Saved Lives, if Not Legs, in Boston":

Quote:
Dr. Allan Panter, 57, an emergency-room physician from Gainesville, Ga., was standing 10 yards from the blast near the finish line, waiting for his wife, Theresa, to complete her 16th Boston Marathon. Assisted by others, he said he used gauze wraps to apply tourniquets to several victims, including a man who appeared to be in his late 20s who lost both of his lower legs in the blast. He said he saw another six or seven victims with belts tied around their wounded legs.

The organizers of the Boston Marathon deserve great credit for being prepared. On some other forums it has been noted that because of the huge number of racers and spectators involved they always treat this event as a Mass Casualty Incident in their pre-race preparations, with a large medical presence standing by. While the preparations were in expectation of heat exhaustion, heat stroke, dehydration, etc, they quickly transitioned to handling trauma. They also had a robust ICS structure in place to run the event. All that paid off when the unexpected occured.
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-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz

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#259348 - 04/18/13 11:05 PM Re: Single Hand Quick Release Reusable Pneumatic Tourn [Re: AKSAR]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
The reason I asked the question is that,even in the rather small scale events in which I have been involved, I have seen all the dedicated first aid items exhausted, making improvisation the order of the day. Improv can often be a necessary strategy.
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#259374 - 04/19/13 02:54 AM Re: Single Hand Quick Release Reusable Pneumatic Tourn [Re: ILBob]
gonewiththewind Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1517
It is nice to have the right materials, but you should always know how to make do with what you have at hand. That goes for first aid or survival.

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#259379 - 04/19/13 03:27 AM Re: Single Hand Quick Release Reusable Pneumatic Tourn [Re: ILBob]
LesSnyder Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 1680
Loc: New Port Richey, Fla
I read reports that the neck lanyards holding ID credentials were used by several first responders

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#259397 - 04/19/13 07:16 AM Re: Single Hand Quick Release Reusable Pneumatic Tourn [Re: ]
AKSAR Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: hikermor
The reason I asked the question is that,even in the rather small scale events in which I have been involved, I have seen all the dedicated first aid items exhausted, making improvisation the order of the day. Improv can often be a necessary strategy.

As was noted in the article I posted upthread, most of the tourniquets used in Boston were, at least initially, improvised. One of the reasons I think that classes such as WFR are so valuable is that they stress improv and thinking outside the box.
Originally Posted By: IzzyJG99
Indeed. I think when it comes to mass casualty events they come in such numbers (hence the name) that they just run out of stuff.

Hospitals are well stocked, but I don't think they have on floor and in site enough supplies for around 200 people. In storage plenty of stuff. But not readily available.

And that is exactly why pre-planning and big training exercises are so usefull, and why it paid off big time in Boston. One key part of pre-planning for MCI is to develop (and practice) a system of triage and dispatch, so that the injured are spread out over a number of hospitals, to reduce the odds that any one ER becomes overwhelmed. From Emergency Planning, Speed Saved Lives After the Boston Marathon Attack:
Quote:
Rescuer reaction was so instantaneous that it appeared to be rehearsed, and it was: Two years ago, a citywide drill required Boston police, fire-department workers, hospitals and emergency-medical service personnel to react as if bombs had been detonated across the city.
--------------------snip-------------------
Dr. Conn praised Boston's emergency medical technicians for spreading patients across the city and not deluging any one trauma center with too many critical patients. Dr. George Velmahos, Mass General's chief trauma surgeon, said the hospital—from its janitors to highest management—had prepared for such an event, with ample blood supply and materials for an influx of near-death patients. The hospital had finished trauma drills before with mannequins, and several doctors, including Dr. Velmahos, have worked in war-torn nations.

One of my favorite quotes: "Plans are worthless.....but planning is essential" - General Dwight Eisenhower
You can never know exactly what is going to happen, so things will never go exactly as you planned. But it is usually much easier to modify an existing plan to fit new circustances, than to create a plan totally on the fly under extreme stress.
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"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz

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