I don’t’ think anyone would argue that one needs to practice survival skills in order for them to become second nature. I’ve recently seen threads posted on other forums asking if you ever go on a “survival camping” trip. Taking a minimal amount of gear and surviving for a few days out in the wilderness can be quite fun. However even when I’m planning to practice survival skills on a backpacking trip I always bring along the essentials including a sleeping bag and shelter(usually a sil-nylon tarp or poncho).

So I’m I over prepared or just cautious. I figure I can work on my skills and feel confident I could climb into a sleeping bag and crawl under a dry tarp if my shelter proved to be less than waterproof. It seems like a fine line that you don’t want to cross but I like to take calculated risks when ever possible.

The bottom line to me is I don’t want to turn my practice session into a real survival situation. Any thoughts on this?

IMO, you have the right approach. The point of the trip, as you said is to practice, because you don't know if the things that you have read and experimented with in a controlled environment can be done under pressure in a survival-scenario. When you practice, you learn from your mistakes. If you intentionally are going to make mistakes (ie practice <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />), then it is a good idea to have a backup system.

Maybe, when you have developed confidince in your skills, then you can plan a "survival camp" with no back ups (I think that Ron and Karen Wood from Hoods Woods do these trips).

Have fun with your experiments!

For what it's worth, I think you're right on target. Practice the skills you need when you have a bail-out at hand and you'll be a bit more confident of your abilities if/when you don't. This is something most of us (at least myself) need to do more often.

Troy

I always found the backyard to be a perfectly good testbed for most of my survival supplies. I guess I can turn the sprinkler on and see how hard it is to erect a shelter, start a fire, cook a meal, and try to irritate my neighbors with my whistles, flares, and smoke bombs until one of them pops out and tells me to knock off the racket. That's a sure sign the signaling device(s) are working well, though I usually have to cook up a batch of banana nut bread for the bunch later to get out of dutch.

Survival camping is okay, but why take unnecessary risks to see if the equipment and I will function when we need to. I can simulate any condition I am likely to find myself in just fine at home, and still have someone around to bail me out when I pull a Tim Allen stunt and find myself hanging upside down from the eave again.

My limited survival school enrollments have left a bad taste in my mouth, and it isn't something I ate while still alive either. Some instructors/ philosophies feel the students have to suffer a degree of hardship or initial failure before imparting esoteric wisdom like some science fiction swordmaster. I did my basic training for the military, thankyou very much, and I see Alpha males get beaten up on The Nature Channel nightly. I opt for building basic skills in a controlled environment.

Yes to Much of what Adam says, but I Must also Second What WOFT says here as well. Yes, Backyard Practices are Great, but Once in a While, you Need to Make a Dry Run into the Actual Wilderness as Well!

After All, thats the Element(s) we're speaking of. You Need to Get that Sense and Feel! Thats where Actual Wilderness and Survival Demands and Pressures Occur! Real Life! The Integrated Interplay of it All. Of All that can "Not So Tidily"!, Happen Out There!

If someone's into Basketball, You Got to Get into a Game!, at least every Once in a Wowl. Not just Make Practice Shoots into your Driveway Basket! Not that Alone!

This Latter is Better than Only Reading About Basketball, -or Survival, -in Books Alone. Great and Valuable a Place as that also has! But in Both Reading or Practice, -You Have to Do More than just that or Yard Stuff Alone!

This said, There is still a Lot to be said for Backyard Practice. You and Adam have said that Well. And It certainly has it's Role and Place!

And even with also Getting Out into some Wilderness some of the Time anyway, There are Things to be said as well, for things such as Backup Tarps and the Like, as you've mentioned.

So Long as you can Truly Keep them Stashed, as if they Weren't even there! To be Resorted to Only When or If you may Truly Need them! If you can Resist such "Dip In" Temptation so!

Even Then, Some Wilderness Practices Can and Shud be Done *Without* such Backups! After All, in Real Life Wilderness and Survival Settings and Situations!, -You May *Not* Have such to Readily Fall Back On! Isn't *Such* a Situation the Very Thing of Which such Practiceing is All About?! To Do so at least every Once in a Woul, is Certainly within the Reality and Spirit of it All!

Your Survival Sense and Will!, is thereby also Further Honed and Sharpened! In that you *Know* that you *Don't* Have a Ready Backup, and that you Had Bettered Try to Do this Right!

So it's Well Advised to Also Do your Practices *Without* Ready Backup, Once in a While.

Of course that Doesn't Apply to your Yard.

But it Shud Apply to at least Some of your Wilderness, -or even Semi-Wilderness Practices!

These Pretty Much Boil Down to the Following Four;-

Read About Survival and Emergency Preparedness, but also Practice!

Practice in the Yard, but also Practice in the Real Wilderness or Semi-Wilderness!

Have a (Truly) Stashed Handy Backup on Many of these Practices, But Don't Dip into it Any!, -Until or Unless you may Truly Ever Need it! This is where things like Emergency Ponchos or Tarps, Place.

And even Dispense with That!, with your Handy Ready Backup, on at Least Some of your Wilderness / Semi-Wilderness Practices!

A Swimmer's Got to Get Into the Water! A Pilot's Got to Get Into the Air! A Basketball Player's Got to Get Into the Game! An Outdoorsman's Got to Get Out Into the Great Outdoors! And a Survivor's Got to Get Out Into that Same Great Outdoors Wilderness as Well!

An Aviation Minded Kid, as I once was, Hangs Around the Local Little Country Airport!, and maybe Takes a Demo Flight or Two!, -in Addition to Avidly Reading About It! Later when you Take your Flying Lessons, -You Practice! When you Finally Solo, -You No Longer have your Instructor, as a Ready Backup! You're Now On Your Own! There in the Air Elements! As Surely as in Any Real Wilderness or Survival Situation, -You are There and On Your Own in the various Wilderness Ground Elements!

Sure you Shud Guard Against Finding Yourself in a Real Survival Situation, Amidst a Practice! You in This Way, Don't Want to Walk in Unprepared!

But "Ready Practice Backups", are a Double Edged Sword! They are At Once both In Line With!, and Counter To!, the Very Idea of Survival Preparedness. In Different Ways, such as I've Already mentioned.

Know Whats What, and Know the Difference!

Be Prepared for any Reasonably Likely or Possible Eventuality, -But Don't Let such Preparedness Get in the Way of your Truly Being Wilderness Prepared!

Practice Beyond Only the Yard every Once in a While!

And There in the Full or Semi Wilderness, -Practice Without even your Ready Backups, -Once in a While!

(The Above Doesn't Apply to the Basic PSKs and Such as we Routinely Carry Around with us anyway. Nor to Really / Sufficiently Far Out Wilderness Practice Locales! Practices Tend to be Near at Hand anyway. Though I Acknowledge that Bad Turns in the Weather, -Can Effectively Equate it to a Far Out Locale! As well as Other Unforseen Emergencies Quite Close to Home! To Get that True, Wilderness, On Your Own Feeling However!, -as a Part of your Practice!, -You may Sometimes just Have to Risk these Possibilities a Bit! Within Some of your such Practices.)

Again, Get Out Into the Wilderness *Without* a Ready Backup, once in a While!, as Regards Some of your Survival Practice. [color:"black"] [/color] [email]WOFT[/email]

Yep. I already know that I do not know, otherwise I would not be here! quit wasting our time to show me I don't know something and teach already!

Having been involved with technical rescue for almost 15 years, I have had my fair share of exposure to a variety of training styles. No one style is perfect for all people, settings or learning styles. I feel you need to become exposed to a variety of styles, find the one(s) that you mesh with best and get something out of, before you settle for something less than you had hope and become frustrated.

Some people can read a book or see a technique one time and can readily employ that skill on demand. Others require extensive book and/or hands on practice. However, once learned both individuals are comfortable with the skill.

Some instructors seek to show you what you don’t know, by having you first jump into a scenario, have you fail, tear you down and then have you evaluate your performance. They will point out your weaknesses, go over additional techniques and then have you repeat a similar scenario to employ what you have hopefully learned.

Some instruction styles will first seek to fill/stuff you with information and then have you carry out multiple scenarios of an ever-increasing complexity, forcing/encouraging you to employ techniques of greater complexity, until you get it “right”.

One of the best instruction styles I have had the opportunity to be exposed was from an instructor that first gave you the blackboard theory behind why and how we do certain techniques. Then it was hands on - having your body and mind coordinate with each other and then finally scenarios of increasing complexity to hone your skills, both personal and team based. Pete

Although the back yard is is nice to test stuff in, I tend to head out to a local/or not so local "primitive" camping area.. Meaning , no steel fire ring or assigned camp site, no latrines other than what you dig, and no water spigots..

Training is a great way to shake down your gear, find out what works well and whats hype, and "customize" your own kit to YOUR personal preferences.

Each of us are radically different as far as our kits go. Some folks prefer a few comfort items, others are more than happy to gut it out minimally as if they were in a Green Breret Qual course. To each his own.

But practicing the bare fundamentals in a "real world environment" is more valueable than silver or gold in my opinion. Starting a fire in drizzle with tinders, drinking water you've purified yourself, rigging a tarp shelter and actually sleeping in it while laying in a puddle enjoying the symphony of flying insects circling your head, going without food because you didnt think to pack any, or wiping your behind with vegitation will teach you more than any book, website or manual EVER could.

The important thing is not to cheat... Meaning, if you want to see just how far your altoids/otter box/ fanny pack/rucksack PSK will take you then you use ONLY the things in it, and ONLY THE THINGS IN IT.... If you cant make a fire with whats in it, you do without. No climbing into a brought along sleeping bag and tent when things get leaky and cold.. No MRE's or freeze dried dinners cause the ol' stomachs crying either, just make due with that little bullion cube, or that 1 piece of candy from your tin...( or learn from the experience and make a kit that is more suitable with your "threshold" - each person has a different one )

An important thing to remember is not to place yourself in harms way. ( this is training in an outdoor environment. not ) Don't go 20 miles into the bush to do this training. Stay within a mile of the road or trailhead, so if you find that things are getting dangerous due to weather/ body temperature/ etc, you can easily get back to a vehicle or civilization for help.

Just my 2 pesos

Matt

"He who sweateth in training bleedeth not in battle"

back in my more "rambunctious" (sp?) days, i would go into the woods, armed only with a knife. id build myself a nice little lean-to out of small saplings in the area. i found that the stripped bark worked quite well as lashing. id spend all day in this little thing, thinking up new ways to improve it and incorporate more naturally occuring accesories. in fact, i was very happy with myself when i figured out that snow packed in between the sapling/lashings created a VERY nice insulation when combined with a lil fire inside. all in all, i was just "playing", but if it got bad, i could always run home. moral of the story. if you plan on playing, there is nothnig wrong with having a back-up plan.


did this make any sense? eh...ill post anyway.HA!

Makes plenty of sense to me, and I couldn't agree more with ya. Not to mention, it's a lot of cheap fun that teaches a lot about personal capabilities, gear likes/dislikes, and just what ya really want/need "out and about".

All true, you see, but I would still contend that all can be accomplished sufficiently in the backyard, at least in mine anyways. We got bugs a plenty, we got irrigation water you wouldn't want to swim in, we got heat, we got rain (vis a vis the aforementioned sprinkler system), we got critters (well, maybe I can't count the lab as a bona fide varmint, but definitely a nuisance when camping out back, especially dealing with his doggie-bombs). Now, a little proofing of that sort goes a long ways towards telling me what I need to take on an overnight yote hunt, or deer hunt, and believe me, going to the hilltop in January to find out why the repeater went down, again is as good a cold weather test as you'd ever want, and under reasonably controlled conditions to boot. Granted mine is a rather rare circumstance not shared by the masses, but it does help to prepare me for the far away elk hunts when I am 30+ miles from nowhere and it's 5 degrees outside and snow blowing sideways.

So yes, if I can use the backyard as a decent controlled test arena, then I would have to agree that an ocassional outing into the bush appropriately equipped with both the "necessary items" and the knowledge of how to use them effectively.

Agreed! The test isn't a test unless you limit yourself to the set of gear you are testing. If you are testing skills / gear that are minimalist (PSK only, EDC only etc) then you will want to do somethings to make your experiment a little safer than a true survival situation would be. There are situations that could creep up on you and make you "too stupid to survive". Hypothermia and dehydration come immediately to mind. To mke yourself a little safer you should make this experiment with a partner and watch each other. Don't help each other but watch each other. Make sure that you each have agreed to allow the other to judge your safety. A few cheap monitors of the basics would be good too. Get one of those stick-on thermometers at the drugstore and use clear adhesive tape to tape it to your chest or belly . Check it now and again. If it gets below 95 then your are objectively in trouble! Every now and then try to spit. If you can't spit you are objectively in trouble. These simple tests and others that we could think of may help you to decide when you have reached the limit of your gear / skills and must fall back on your safety net.

Starting the experiment with a long, exhausting run would also be a good thing to help simulate the stress of getting into a survival situation.

Starting at night would also be a good thing since you don't know when this will happen.

If you plan to test your trapping, fishing, hunting skills either go truely remote or get the lisences required.

Don't cheat but do know when to quit. Training to survive doesn't help if you don't survive the training.

I have considered driving out to a (reasonably remote) campsite, taking all my survival gear out of the car, locking the car (with my tent, sleeping bag, battery-powered combo TV/VCR, etc. inside) and then sealing the car key in an envelope. If you can complete the weekend without having to rip open the envelope, then you're probably doing okay.

I suppose the only caution would be if it's extremely cold - you might get so cold that you can no longer unlock the car door. (When my brother spent his first winter in Grande Prairie, Alberta, he discovered the hard way how quickly this can happen - he went out to start the car one morning wearing only a shirt (and dress pants and shoes). By the time he got to the car, his hands were so cold that he couldn't turn the key in the lock; by the time he got back to the house, he could no longer open the door, and had to kick at it until his wife opened it. I daresay in a real desperate situation, he would have been able to open one or the other, but he learned there is a world of difference between 40 below and what we grew up with in Nova Scotia.

My son and I just did a little "practice session" this past weekend (he's 4 almost 5)

Just me, him, and a small backpack to spend the whole day in the woods. No, it's not overnight, and no it was not far from home (in fact, it's in on our property, we have lots of woods), but we DID gather food together (Hickory & Walnuts, some Onion Grass, which he likes, and for a treat some Sassafrass Bark), we DID purify pond water, and we DID build a simple improvised shelter and he helped me build a small fire. I was going to catch and eat one of our loose Guinea Hens, which we raise for food, but my wife called us in for dinner, and Pizza on the table is easier than a bird to be dressed!

We had a great deal of fun, it's a great father & son thing to do, and since we're only practicing, we can find flaws in our kits. For example, I didn't really have enough rope in my bag to turn a tarp into a tent AND to secure it properly. I need much more than 50', it turns out. Also, it would have been nice to have something better than my lousy home depot tarp as a shelter, so since then I've gotten some ripstop polyester material at a fabric store that was going out of business and I'm going to make my own tarp-thing from it to meet my needs.