Just came across the packing list for an INCH pack...which weighed 95 pounds (43 kg). Um. While some special forces packs weigh 100# its not a good choice for the rest of us - it is, in fact too heavy to carry downstairs to the truck.

Part of the reason for this was the 1300 rounds of ammo.

That's really freakin' heavy even for a bag in a car kit. My BOB (which is definitely not designed to be an INCH bag) is much lighter, but I would still pick and choose what to bring from it before attempting to carry it on my back for more than a few miles.

In my mind, no component of a kit may be larger than my wife can carry.

Wow, I can't imagine walking around with that much weight on my back. My two dumbbells are 90 lbs together and I can already feel the stress on my knees when I walk with them, 95 lb on my back I'd probably need new knees in a day or two.

On one occasion I carried a cast fossil (mammoth jaw) about a mile over rudimentary trails, Total climb was uphill. I went slow and easy and didn't injure myself. I was going quite slow and my mobility was definitely impaired. At my request, the cast was weighed afterward - 90 pounds plus 5 pounds for the pack frame.

For most of us, not a practical prospect. A really big, fit guy might be able to carry a load that big, but it would be exceptional.

...and the likelihood of injury goes way up.

1300? Were they going to sunday school? I have carried in excess of 100, most notably in a mock bug out last summer. Not a whole lot of fun. And yes, injuries would be a serious consideration, as well as mobility and speed.

I wonder if that person is planning to bug out on foot or by vehicle. 100 pounds in the trunk isn't unreasonable but probably would be for most people if you had to hump it.

Our family bob is super heavy (haven't weighed it) but it supports up to five people, when we add in my personal GHB and my son's survival pack. Our plan is to divvy it up if we have to move on foot, otherwise it's stored in one pack and plan A is to take the jeep if we need to vacate.

As we develop more skill, the weight of our packs is falling. It could well be that this person is new and just doesn't feel confident enough in their skills yet to start shedding weight. Of course, all that ammo might mean they have a different take on survival preparedness than most of us seem to have.

It sounded to me as if they were expecting to either see battle, stand off a siege or hunt a lot Jac. Until I know what calibers, magazines weapons and equipment, including food, it's hard to say what thier skill level is. My BOB is huge, plus there are other bags and duffels to support it. Are they carrying MRE's or FD? MRE's add up wieght, and bulk fast.

I can easily walk out the door with a forty pound pack and do fine for several days, assuming some sort of water source. That would typically include some non essential luxuries. If I figure really close, I could get by with a thirty pound pack in good conditions and still be safe and comfortable.

I ruck at least once a week with a pack that weighs 30 or so pounds and am working my way up to 50 or so. 95 pounds? Screw that.

What is an INCH bag?

thanks.
Conway Yee

INCH = I'm Never Coming Home

INCH = Bug-out bag for "I'm Never Coming Home" and need to start over bag.
(BOB = Bug-Out Bag for temporarily away from home.)

1300 rounds????Thats nutz!

1300 of 22 maybe????? Thats about 10 lbs.

4-6 lbs per 100 for rifle calibers. 52 to 78 lbs !!!

Add rifle(s) and magazines......

Add some twinkies,2 packs of Ramen,2 bandaids and a compass....he's done!

When much younger, I carried rucks that averaged 60 lbs - I was the Radio guy for the Commander. 30 lbs of radio/5 lbs of extra battery/25 lbs of gear. This is not counting the stuff I was wearing.

In Alaska my ruck went just over 110 - and I was tethered to it by a battery cable that ran from under my shirt (battery was strapped to my chest) and into the ruck where the radio was. So not fun.

There is no way on God's green earth I would want to try to hump a 100+ lb pack. That is why they invented caches.

I consider 300rds to be more than adequate for an extended outing. The SEALs have it right: if you get into a firefight, you've blown your mission.

You had me at INCH pack . Walking off into the woods indefinitely never struck me as a good plan; it's definitely not something I'll be preparing for.

Ditto. It's just not something I envision needing to do.

Mine has 2000 rounds of assorted .22 long rifle alone. plus shotshells, rifle and pistol ammo, plus mags weapons, assorted nasties etc.

I fully respect your opinion wildman. However if you have blown your mission 300 rounds may not be adequate. And some ammo would be expended for hunting I would assume. The average person evacing is not a trained and experienced combat vet. They have most likely never heard a shot fired in anger, will have no ammo discipline when under fire, and are far less likely to hit the enemy. Also, the enemy will want what they have and may perhaps heve better, higher capacity weapons. And criminals aren't the warm and fuzzy fellows that the media would have us believe. They'll only get worse as things fall apart around them. I also carry between 200 and 500 rounds when I am working. Outside the states I have carried upward of 1000 depending on the situation. Just my opinion, sir.

A little too heavy for me, anything over 50-60lbs becomes a major struggle and weight distribution i.e. a good backpack with a excellent back system combined with a Webbing system such as PLCE would be the way to go. i.e. 20lbs on the webbing and 40lbs in the ruck.

But of course a lot depends on the individual. This guy who came up with this INCH bag list may well have a girl friend who can help with carrying some of the gear.

Hmm, I see. Looks like she can carry some weight for me. I love a healthy woman.

50 pounds is heavy for a pack - you lose a lot of mobility and put a lot of stress and strain on your body. I aim for nothing heavier than 30 pounds. Incidentally, I cant begin to imagine why anybody could possibly want 1300 rnds of ammo unless they plan on fighting WW3.

I realize our SF soldiers can carry these enormous loads. But I always thought it was tremendously counterproductive to order them to so it. They should elect me general. I'd tell them to throw out 50% of their stuff ... more if possible. Take only the bare essentials and move on !!

Pete2

But how much of the population is even half as fit as those guys? Try the USMC fitness test.

Soldiers have been lightening their loads as soon as they were outside the wire since the beginning of time, I strongly suspect. The thing is to determine what weight works for YOU and within that limit strive to concoct the ideal mix of gear that will serve your purpose.

When I was active in SAR I went through this process. One of my companions weighed my pack at the end of an operation; it came out at 41 pounds, a weight I was able to handle routinely. That was then and this is now. I am a good deal older and my packs are lighter and the trips are less demanding. You still need to strike that ideal balance between weight and utility, stripping away all the useless junk. Mostly this takes time and real eperience in the field.

Snake Dr,I dont think I could even lift that much ammo,what does it weigh??If I was heading out permanent,on my BACK,I could see the .22,but rifle rounds are HEAVY.

I'm a big believer in test and train - to see if your gear and plan will really work in an emergency.

A reasonable upper limit to your pack weight is based on 1/3 of your weight and in a pinch 1/2 your weight. Understand packs at that weight you will move very slow and will burn a huge amount of calories. It is useless unless you have to move a short distant. No 160km/100mile E&E with a pack like that.

It is true in the army packs often got heavier, but mostly just before an attack when extra ammo was issued or for the unfortunate radio man. Carrying this weight is also something that required a high level of fitness, lots of training, and a whole lot of drive! normally with heavy weapons we traded off when possible and shift platoon gear around to even the load.

In the arctic my pack was always that heavy, but we never got more that 12km on foot in a day and at -40 we were reduced to 15min Walking followed by a 2min break to cool back down, instead of our normal 55min forced march and a 5min break.

Conditions, Fitness, and the Situation will dictate what you can Carry in what circumstances. Be realistic and if you want to carry that heavy of a weight in a pinch, them add 4kg/10lbs to the total weight and go out an practice with it and see how far you can go!

We should probably be encouraging heavy packs.

Since survival at INCH conditions may be a competitive sport, I would prefer that all of the competition be carrying 95# weight handicaps, while I dance along with my drpsk, tiny knife, and ramen noodles.

Yeah, definitely need to see the round. A 30-round magazine of 5.56 is 1 lbs, so you're looking at ... 43 lbs? Ammo alone? (for an AR platform). If you're talking 30-06 or something that size, definitely heavier.
I mean, if you're using it, your load is going to lighten, but you'll be a big target and probably won't get past that first magazine.

You'll make someone a nice cache, though.

So speaking of acronyms, what's MUSHY?

Mathematically Unlikely Scenarios Here == M.U.S.H. with a lower-case y to create the adjective. I recently had to search the forum to remind myself what it meant, so I thought I'd save you the trouble .

Personally, I like the term.

Thanks for that look up - I made it up and had forgotten. It was created for people who do math like so; 1 gallon per person per day - I'll be gone for 5 days so I'll add 5 gallons to my backpack. Thinking done!

One word - Cache.

If you plan on never coming home again, there must be someplace you intend to head to. If I was Backbreak Bob here, I'd cache ammo in several out of the way places along intended and/or probable routes.

As to pack weights. I routinely averaged above 90% on my PT scores. I maxed the run for 21 y/o on my last PT test (I was 42). I had rucks go from nearly nothing (summer at Bragg) to well north of 100 lbs (aforementioned Alaska trip, to include radio). If I had my druthers, I'd carry little more than food and water with gotta haves, and rely on pre-place caches to supplement.

Hmm.

I wonder how difficult it would be to rig up an ALICE pack with a crossmember/axle and two lightweight bicycle wheels?

Clearly it wouldn't be useful everywhere, but depending on your environment it could be quite advantageous, with the pack only on your back for short periods of time where terrain is simply not suited for wheels.

Burncycle...a used jogging stroller, especially the high end ones with the same diameter wheels, could easily carry a large ALICE pack, and a lot more... the pic is for my 3 gun rig... I have attempted to make it modular, with aluminum snap links to attach my range bag...it is very easy to push...the wide versions for twins would be ideal

Well the NVA did just fine with a bike and a few bamboo rods to attach gear to.

There are several "backpack with wheels" inventions out there - and look fairly simple to make. But if you have to move weight, I like a nice wagon, bike trailer or stroller.

As I read this thread, one thought occurred to me: if you're carrying thousands of rounds, you'd better pray they're mostly for long-term hunting.

This is not to say that I disapprove of self-defense, but think about it: if you are in the sort of war where you might have to shoot 1,000 rounds cumulatively, the only way for you to survive is if you're a part of an army.

*Alright, tornado warning went off. I'm now in my shelter. I still have wi-fi*

Anyway, if you have to shoot that much, you're probably fighting a large number of armed men. Without allies, logistical help, and medical care, you'll die fast.

+1 on the bicycle. A little research on how the Japanese did it in WWII and the NVA did it in Vietnam will show not only how easy it is, but how practical as well.

for you guys out there that actually know where the Mu Gia Pass is....

Another option to consider:



Of course, I keep a baby in the passage area of mine.

I've also used a wagon and pull sled to haul gear long distances. Do it regularly at camp with my younger Scouts, actually, and it works very well.

Thanks Les! I think we might try this once our little grows out of her jogging stroller. Those suckers are awesome!

Yes; any kind of stroller, wagon or bike trailer makes larger loads possible. Consider how you might move a family's worth of gear or an injured adult. (Or in my case, dog, kennel, dog food...)

T ro

My next BOV project: sail assisted Chinese wheelbarrow

an modernized version of a Mormon hand cart might be constructed from one of these wild game carts

http://www.amazon.com/Hunting-Deer-Game-...ords=game+carts