"The reverse is certainly true as well. What if the source of the help you are relying on does not actually exist?"

In one basic sense ... what any type of "faith" is doing is working to remove doubt. One of the basic strengths of an organized faith is that it stops peoples' thought patterns from "going all over the map". Fear does tend to mak people think "wild and crazy thoughts" - which are highly disruptive to a positive thought pattern that can produce effective answers. These wild and crazy thoughts are not WRONG. They are the result of our subconscious mind bubbling up its own inputs into our conscious mind. Fear really unlocks the barriers between the conscious and the subconscious. For this same reason - these wild and crazy thoughts can be very hard to control.

Therefore ... you need your own "mental system" that gets your thoughts onto an organized track. It's a bit like putting a steam locomotive onto a set of rails ... now it has a place to go. If you can get your mind onto a system ... you can get to a place in your head where you are thinking constructively again.

I have tried to phrase these last two responses so they are helpful for ALL people on the forum. Anybody can get into a crisis - we all need methods to get out. :-)

Pete2

OK, it makes some sense that this could be quite dependent on the person and the worldview he chooses. Not all religions are about faith. So if you happen to be in one for which faith is important (i.e., Christianity), then that's what you might draw on for strength. You have been attuned to certain things, and those things get activated in a survival situation. (I'm trying to come up with a rational, non-theological explanation.)

But then Christians (some Christians anyway) do believe in praying and communicating with the divine on some very practical matters. So there are specific practices you can do to draw strength and even guidance.

So no one wants to talk about the Third Man?

Oh, but there are such spiritual practices in the Christian tradition, it's just that most people don't know about them or don't do them. Similarly, while we associate "Eastern spirituality" with meditation, being all tranquil and Zen-like, in actuality much of Buddhism is about more "boring" stuff like developing an intellectual understanding of the doctrines, fund-raising for charities and operation costs, etc.

Anyway, I only know one Christian technique, and I would not recommend it in a survival situation because you tend to get lost of the track of time. You're in a different state of consciousness and every thing just flies by fast. That brings up an issue: time. Some medieval warriors had "abbreviated" spiritual practices as well as long versions. The abbreviated ones were for surprise engagements where you didn't have a whole hour to focus and all that good stuff.

So what's the SOP here? If you're lost in the wilderness, open your survival kit, make tea, meditate for five minutes while the tea is steeping?

I suspect like some others on the forum we are nervous to enter in what could become a violation of the forum rules and which has the potential to become divisive in nature, so I will tread as lightly as possible.

I believe I am spiritual being and that religion can be the source of greatness and progress or debasement and despair depending upon how the actions of the followers of a particular faith reflect and live the precepts and teachings of their faith in dealing with others and in their daily lives.

Growing up I had little use for religion and felt more inclined to adhere to an agnostic belief system. Partially because I had strong attraction to science, I felt that it would be more appropriate to keep an open mind on the existence of a supreme being, neither believing nor disbelieving. Then one day, while sitting in a chemistry class I had a revelation. The professor was explaining entropy as the natural order of things is to become disordered or seek their lowest degree of disorder. He used the example that if you tossed a pile of bricks into the air the bricks would fall into a pile and not a wall. That if you were to hit a wall of bricks with a strong enough wind, causing the bricks to be swept up in the wind, it would fall into a pile of disorganized bricks and not into the structure of another wall. At that moment, thinking of the organization of the human body, the thousands of biochemical reactions occurring every moment in the body to maintain organization and function convinced me that there had to be a supreme entity organizing the universe.

Since that moment I have never doubted the existence of a supreme being and have drawn upon that belief many times in life.

Just my 2 cents-

Pete

Last year, in a doctor’s office waiting room, I was talking with a veteran. He said, when the first bullet went over his head, he realized he was not in control (or something to that effect).

I do not believe it is of fear but revelation. That is my two cents. Your millage may vary.

Jeanette Isabelle

Absolutely. Prayer, for example, is big (I'll touch on meditation below). However, I have to go back to my previous point that prayer is a big part of the Christian life, whether you lost in the woods or not. It isn't really a special ceremony or rite, it is simply an ongoing, daily conversation with God (you often hear people refer to Christianity as a relationship, not a religion - this is an example why). So, of course, prayer is going to happen in emergency scenarios, but it isn't really something that would need to be listed on an SOP card either. So, yes, I do draw strength and peace from prayer when life hits its rough spots, but it is also really a part of who I am, not something I pull out only when I'm in trouble.

Going back to my physical training metephor, the cardio-vascular endurance I've developed will help me if I need to take a longer than planned hike, but I don't need to really do anything special for it to come into play in an emergency. Likewise, I expect my spirituality (including prayer life) to help if I'm lost in the wilderness, but I don't really need to do any special rite for it to come into play; it is simply a part of who I am.

Hopefully that makes some sense?


There definately is meditation in Christianity, and it is widely practised, but traditional Christian meditation is different than what many nowadays associate the term with. For the sake of simplicity, I'll quote Wikipedia:

Christian meditation is a form of prayer in which a structured attempt is made to get in touch with and deliberately reflect upon the revelations of God. The word meditation comes from the Latin word meditari, which has a range of meanings including to reflect on, to study and to practice. Christian meditation is the process of deliberately focusing on specific thoughts (such as a bible passage) and reflecting on their meaning in the context of the love of God ... Teachings in both the Eastern and Western Christian churches have emphasized the use of Christian meditation as an element in increasing one's knowledge of Christ.

So, while many associate the term meditation with an emptying of the mind, traditional Christian meditation is the opposite. One way to implement this in a survival scenario would be to meditate upon certain promises or attributes of God. As an aide to this, one could keep certain Bible verses in your kit or on your person that you can reflect on in an emergency (this is a technique Bear Grylls mentioned in his book). I could see this being used during the STOP phase of an emergency, or any other time when there is a bit of down-time.

1 Corinthians 15:12-19 does address this. I’m quoting The Message, a translation in simple English:

Now, let me ask you something profound yet troubling. If you became believers because you trusted the proclamation that Christ is alive, risen from the dead, how can you let people say that there is no such thing as a resurrection? If there’s no resurrection, there’s no living Christ. And face it—if there’s no resurrection for Christ, everything we’ve told you is smoke and mirrors, and everything you’ve staked your life on is smoke and mirrors. Not only that, but we would be guilty of telling a string of barefaced lies about God, all these affidavits we passed on to you verifying that God raised up Christ—sheer fabrications, if there’s no resurrection.

If corpses can’t be raised, then Christ wasn’t, because he was indeed dead. And if Christ weren’t raised, then all you’re doing is wandering about in the dark, as lost as ever. It’s even worse for those who died hoping in Christ and resurrection, because they’re already in their graves. If all we get out of Christ is a little inspiration for a few short years, we’re a pretty sorry lot.

If we believe Jesus is alive but is not, we’re wasting our time, money and energy when we could be dealing with our mortality in a more productive manner.

Jeanette Isabelle

I did not mean for this thread to take a turn towards proselytizing, but I would ask that each of you be respectful towards each other's views. I realize that religion and politics are very taboo subjects, but I must state that this is a legitimate question, in which I want personal opinions. I would like help understanding the usefulness of faith, or religious beliefs in a survival situation. If I feel the conversation turns towards proselytizing or insults, I will request it immediately deleted. I am glad it has remained civil, so carry on.

The "Third Man" could be explained using many things. I believe that it is most likely a hallucination. I realize that some may get offended, but that is what it sounds like to me. I will look further into it, but that is my basic explanation.

Please, no "Pascal's Wager". I merely want discussion over whether Religious belief is a helpful tool in a survival situation, not whether God, Vishnu, Allah, or Thor exists or not. Thank you.

There is a contradiction in the two statements you make below:





You dismiss what some people might regard as a real spiritual experience (possibly a rare instance of communion with God) as hallucination, but then you say that's not what you want to talk about. Make up your mind!

Anyway, I think it's more productive to talk about "how useful is it?" rather than "is it real?" as long as there isn't some sort of ulterior motive to push one religious agenda or another. From that perspective, it seems that the Third Man would be immensely useful -- at least the survival accounts I've read have convinced me of it, so much so that I'd love to have the Third Man hang out with me all the time. Even if he is a hallucination.

By the way, I am starting a fight club with my friend Tyler Durden.