I didn't dismiss it. I applied a real, natural explanation, to what may e regarded as a supernatural experience. You see it all over the globe, people or tribes that take hallucinogens to bring them spiritual guidance. I did not mean to offend. However, say I was put into a situation in which I did see a "Third Man".. I would be reluctant to follow the advice of someone who is not there, or trained in S&R.

My position is that faith, specifically a Christian worldview, can help in a survival situation (I am not really in a position to speak about other faiths so I will only speak to my own).

My worldview, in part, says the world is broken and I should expect hardship and pain, but that this life is not all there is; that ultimately this brokenness has been overcome and everything will be reconciled in the end. Therefore, I am free to live without fear or worry. This allows me to focus on dealing only with the things that are under my control and frees me from worrying about those things that are not.

There are certain disciplines, like prayer, and the relational aspects of the faith that would come into play during an emergency, but ultimately it is the convictions I hold (i.e., my worldview) that provides me with peace and strength when hard times come.

Shhhhh! Rule 1 & 2

" would be reluctant to follow the advice of someone who is not there, or trained in S&R."

If you're about to be toast - you'll probably take guidance from a Girl Scout if it will get you out of hot water :-)

I guess my final comment is this ... I've had my own share of very close calls. Some in the mountains, some under the oceans. In those moments when I was pretty close to being in "the wrong place at the wrong time" I remember doing some heavy duty praying. I remember being scared, praying hard, and trying to survive - all at the same time. It's not pleasant. The primal forces of fear and "survival instinct" tend to take over. It's hard to control them. You find yourself breathing very hard, and things are happening in slow motion. Or so it seems.

Does prayer help in that situation? I can't give any simple rational explanation for what it does. But it was important to me - so I did it, and I'm glad I did. We're finite human beings. you can't see all the anwers from this side of life.

good luck,
Pete2

I think the guy is trolling like mad and is deeply passive-aggressive. I can't believe how patient you folks have been. Well done.

If you're looking for a black and white one size fits all answer, there just isn't one. Faith is immensely personal.

Of course it can be helpful. Anything that gives someone hope, and helps them keep going and not give up, is helpful in a survival situation.

Then again, if someone puts their faith solely in a miracle when there is something they can do something to help themselves survive, IMO, that's not helpful.

IMO, your answer comes down to will. If your will is to survive, your faith will be helpful, whether it's faith in a higher power, faith in who you are with, faith in who you count on to rescue you, faith in your equipment, faith in science, or faith in yourself.

I'm not letting you off that easily. You said you're not here to discuss whether God exists, just how much religion helps in survival situations. But you have no trouble discussing issues of faith when it suits you. That's either foolishness or hypocrisy.

I'm not offended. I mentioned the "Third Man" as bait to see what you'd say. You showed who you are.

I do know someone who had a close call, and he experienced something physical which seemed to defy the explanation of physics. He didn't pray for help or anything -- he didn't have time. It just happened, and it saved his life. Now, notice that I'm not asserting that it defied explanation. All he could report was what he felt, saw, observed, etc. So it was a subjective experience, and maybe there was an angle that from his limited vantage point he couldn't see.. However, I knew him to be honest, and I knew him to be a cautious thinker, not prone to exaggeration or fantasy.

Did I mention anything disregarding whether God exists? I believe not. a "Third Man" has nothing to do with religion. You may argue that is does, fine. I simply stated that a scientific explanation of it would be a hallucination. If you still want to believe that I made an ad hominem on faith, feel free.

I have no trouble asking logical questions about a person's faith. If someone says that they believe Poseidon saved them from the Titanic, I would not doubt that they elieve Poseidon exists, I would simply ask why they feel he helped them.

You are viewing everything I say through a bias that I am trying to attack religious beliefs. If I truly wanted to attack your religious beliefs, I would, trust me. I would rather not get kicked out of ETS, nor would I want to be stigmatized here.

So, please stop making unsubstanciated claims, I would appreciate it.

You take a phenomenon that some explorers have given religious meaning to it, and you reduce their experience to a different framework and call it hallucination. How is that different from giving a "rational" explanation to belief in God; e.g., religious beliefs derived from primitive man's fear of natural forces he could not understand? If there is a difference, it is only in scale, not in essence. No one is dumb enough not to see that. The language of your posts contains such indirect denigrations of other people's religious beliefs, and that really isn't OK. It's one thing to discuss honestly how one's beliefs may or may not aid in survival, it's another to cast slings and arrows under a pretense. I am unable to have respect for that.

I don't have a problem with positing that the "Third Man" phenomenon might be hallucination. I just think you need to abide by your own rules, and not bend them when convenient. If you just abide by them, we wouldn't have this problem. I do agree with some other posters that you are trolling, and many posters here have been quite patient. Some people have been so kind as to share a very intimate part of their lives with the forum just to answer your question, so you must exercise greater sensitivity out of respect for them. Making even an implied attack is no appreciated.

As for my religious beliefs, you don't even know what they are -- nor are they relevant to this thread. As far as I can tell, I'm probably the only one in this thread without religious beliefs. How can you attack nothing?

Let's return to a more productive discussion. But I don't know whether anyone has anything more to add, because Denis seems to have written the definitive post on faith might work in a survival situation.