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#257423 - 03/10/13 03:53 PM Re: 40 Hikers lost on Kentucky Mountain are Rescued [Re: bws48]
bacpacjac Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3601
Loc: Ontario, Canada
I have say that I agree with this line of thinking. If you're in a leadership position, you should take responsibility for your group by either learning the basics, including safety, of the activities your going to be doing or by recruiting someone who does. Learn to be a safe guide or hire someone who is.

That said, I'll bet this group, leader included, thought they were simply going for a nature walk. How complicated should walking be? Yes, we ETSers know better, but a good chunk of the population, leaders included, don't see the potential risks in a simple walk. The problem is๑'t that they're poor leaders, but that they don't know what they don't know, and as long as nothing ever goes wrong or they don't see their EXACT scenario in someone else's plight, they never will.
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#257424 - 03/10/13 04:14 PM Re: 40 Hikers lost on Kentucky Mountain are Rescued [Re: bws48]
ILBob Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 776
Loc: Northern IL
Originally Posted By: bws48

I think that whenever someone assumes a leadership role, there is an ethical/moral responsibility that goes with that role to take some minimal care regarding the safety of that group and the individuals in the group. It doesn't matter what the group is or why it was formed. It is true that many people -- probably more than most, who are appointed group leaders don't think about such things. IMO, they should. That's the aspiration part.

Using this incident as an example, I don't expect the group leaders to be experts in survival, or even near that, to take a group out on a hike in the park. But I do think that it is part of their responsibility to think a bit about things like the weather etc., and remind people to take a jacket etc. with them.

Exactly what steps should be taken by the group leaders have to be based on the facts of the situation---but I do feel it is always something that should be considered. A few reminders before the trip might have saved a lot of discomfort.

All that being said, it still doesn't eliminate the individual's responsibility to be prepared. smile


I think you are expecting people to know what they don't know and that is very hard. One of the things about people who do have some expertise is that they are experts in knowing what they do not know. People who don't know, just don't know, and thinking about it will not change anything.
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Warning - I am not an expert on anything having to do with this forum, but that won't stop me from saying what I think. smile

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#257435 - 03/10/13 09:13 PM Re: 40 Hikers lost on Kentucky Mountain are Rescued [Re: bws48]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Quote:
I am stunned that out of the 40, apparently no one was prepared. At least some had a flashlight. . .I suppose that is something.


You may actually be surprised how many townies fail to realise that when the bright fiery ball in the sky disappears that it gets dark to the point that they can't see where they are going together with the surprising lack of Starbucks and McDs... wink

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#257438 - 03/10/13 10:06 PM Re: 40 Hikers lost on Kentucky Mountain are Rescued [Re: bws48]
Glock-A-Roo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
Going forward, the good news is that there will be some number of that group who will think twice in the future and do a better job of taking responsibility for themselves. Certainly not all of them will, but anything is an improvement...

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#257448 - 03/11/13 02:06 AM Re: 40 Hikers lost on Kentucky Mountain are Rescued [Re: bws48]
TeacherRO Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
I agree - at a minimum each hiker should have
a pack
a water bottle
a jacket

And the leaders should have
faK
lights
map/compass

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#257455 - 03/11/13 02:17 PM Re: 40 Hikers lost on Kentucky Mountain are Rescued [Re: TeacherRO]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Somewhere in there should be the means to build a fire.
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#257462 - 03/11/13 05:51 PM Re: 40 Hikers lost on Kentucky Mountain are Rescued [Re: bws48]
barbarian Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/18/12
Posts: 70
Loc: USA
This happened not far from where I live, and I've treaded that area more than once. Almost any preparation or foresight, at all, would have prevented the need for rescue. Good that they're ok, though.

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#257489 - 03/12/13 12:00 AM Re: 40 Hikers lost on Kentucky Mountain are Rescued [Re: bws48]
Tarzan Offline
Member

Registered: 02/02/08
Posts: 146
Loc: Washington
Well they say never underestimate the power of stupid people in a group. I think we all can be guilty of this to degrees, even those of us who perceive themselves as rugged individualists.

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#257494 - 03/12/13 12:57 AM Re: 40 Hikers lost on Kentucky Mountain are Rescued [Re: Tarzan]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Originally Posted By: Tarzan
Well they say never underestimate the power of stupid people in a group. I think we all can be guilty of this to degrees, even those of us who perceive themselves as rugged individualists.


They are not necessarily stupid, so much as they are operating in an unknown and unfamiliar environment. Put any of us in unusual situations and we will probably make some regrettable decisions. I am fine in most wilderness contexts, but drop me in some places in a large urban area, and I have a good chance of becoming chopped liver very quickly. Come to think of it, I am not in command of all wilderness environments. I have practically no experience in jungles, for instance.
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#257515 - 03/12/13 12:02 PM Re: 40 Hikers lost on Kentucky Mountain are Rescued [Re: hikermor]
ILBob Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 776
Loc: Northern IL
Originally Posted By: hikermor
Somewhere in there should be the means to build a fire.


that assumes they could figure out how to gather firewood.

things that are second nature to some of us, even if rarely practiced are not obvious to many. I can't tell you how many times when I was car camping I would see people give up trying to start a fire and use an accelerant. I have even done it when I am in a hurry.

Personally, I am in favor of carrying something that can make emergency fires a lot easier. When one is cold and wet and in trouble is not a good time to be practicing one's bush craft skills.
_________________________
Warning - I am not an expert on anything having to do with this forum, but that won't stop me from saying what I think. smile

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