What makes you think that?

It was a religious excursion and it is almost a certainty that the group leaders were chosen for their religious qualities as opposed to their experience in organizing and running a group hike in the woods.

I see nothing wrong with being a religious leader but that gives you no special knowledge about anything else. Yet, the neophytes tend to see them as having that knowledge because of their religious leadership position.

It really would not even have to be a religious group. Many people tend to see leaders in general as having some special knowledge on just about everything they touch on, even though history has shown that leaders are often wrong about most everything.

Hear! Hear!

College students... I imagine there was one real leader. Everybody else followed, while cracking jokes and drinking. When I was in college, I was invincible too.

I would like to agree with you, and I have encountered some very fine Scout groups over the years, but I have also dealt with far too many that were led by total incompetents. I would say that it is a total lottery.

The final one with which I dealt was bad enough to make me swear that from where the sun now stands, I would never have anything to do with any Scout group.

I have to say this case appear to be more along the lines of them not even being aware that there was anything for God to protect them from. Not sure how this leads to religion bashing - it could just as well have been a cooking club.

But point taken.

On a related note. I've seen a few examples in youtube videos, etc. of "survival instructors" actually going through packs and telling the students that they can't take certain items in order to create the desired "challenge." The implication is that the student relies on the instructor to provide safety net - which ironically goes directly against the first thing they should be teaching!

Kinda like teaching the importance of a reserve parachute by having the student jump without a working main chute.

No bashing going on. As I mentioned, it could have been a different kind of group. This one just happened to be a religious group. Since I have some experience with such groups, I can appreciate how it could be that someone completely unqualified to lead such an expedition might be in charge.

You speak the truth. I'm sorry that it ended so badly for you.

Every group is different but one thing is the same: volunteering to be a Scout leader does not instantly grant a person a wealth of expertise, but most people would assume that a Scout leader has just that when it comes to the outdoors. most of us are still learning to one degree or another. The good ones know their own limitations and respect them but, sadly, not all of us are good ones.

I think you're right, ILBob. Regardless of whether we're taking religion, cooking or ice dancing, a lot of people put full faith in their group leaders, even if the event has little to do with what the group is about and/or calls on completely different skills than is required for the person's leadership role. (Personal example: we took our Cub Scouts to the fire station last spring and one of the dad's asked me a technical question about one of the fire trucks. I'm no fireman but he somehow thought I'd know.)

It is an aspiration -- not a description.

I think that whenever someone assumes a leadership role, there is an ethical/moral responsibility that goes with that role to take some minimal care regarding the safety of that group and the individuals in the group. It doesn't matter what the group is or why it was formed. It is true that many people -- probably more than most, who are appointed group leaders don't think about such things. IMO, they should. That's the aspiration part.

Using this incident as an example, I don't expect the group leaders to be experts in survival, or even near that, to take a group out on a hike in the park. But I do think that it is part of their responsibility to think a bit about things like the weather etc., and remind people to take a jacket etc. with them.

Exactly what steps should be taken by the group leaders have to be based on the facts of the situation---but I do feel it is always something that should be considered. A few reminders before the trip might have saved a lot of discomfort.

All that being said, it still doesn't eliminate the individual's responsibility to be prepared.

The hike evidently was tangential to the main mission of the group. "Let's go for a hike - how difficult can that be, especially on a marked trail.." They certainly aren't the first group to get into trouble following that logic, and they won't be the last.