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#254651 - 12/14/12 03:50 PM Re: Expanding foam to stop internal bleeding [Re: Arney]
ILBob Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 776
Loc: Northern IL
Better than bleeding to death. The sad thing is that there really is no good way to deal with this kind of injury short of surgery that may not be readily available. The best you can do in the field usually is to slow the bleeding down some and hope for the best. If an ER is ten minutes away, probably an adequate response. If it is ten hours away, the victim will likely die.

I expect to see cans of great stuff now a must carry item in the fully stocked FAK.
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#254652 - 12/14/12 03:57 PM Re: Expanding foam to stop internal bleeding [Re: Blast]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Blast
...based on several different papers I found I think the foam is NOT injected into the abdominal cavity but rather underneath the torso muscles but outside the membrane surrounding the "gut sack".

Blast, do you have any links? I was interested in learning more about how the foam is applied, but couldn't find anything that definitively indicated which bodily spaces the foam goes into.

I did find an academic poster that the manufacturer presented at a conference and it says the two chemicals are injected into the "intra-peritoneal" space, but that's still vague. At first blush, intra-peritoneal suggested "inside the abdominal cavity" to me, but then I remembered that you have the parietal peritoneum and the visceral peritoneum, so "intra" could mean injecting it between the two membranes, thus keeping the foam outside the abdominal cavity.

There is a video on the manufacturer's website that could be showing the foam spreading not inside the abdominal cavity, but over the area instead. Even with a video, though, it's not totally clear where the foam does or does not spread to.

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#254654 - 12/14/12 04:01 PM Re: Expanding foam to stop internal bleeding [Re: MDinana]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: MDinana
...I'm sure the surgeons would absolutely LOVE tracking every little bit of this stuff and scraping it off.

According to the manufacturer, animal experiments show that the foam comes out quickly and cleanly, with very little left behind stuck to tissue.

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#254659 - 12/14/12 05:14 PM Re: Expanding foam to stop internal bleeding [Re: Arney]
JPickett Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/03/12
Posts: 264
Loc: Missouri
I remember when Celox was something for first responders to dream about. Now we can buy it and similar products at Walmart.

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#254681 - 12/16/12 01:19 AM Re: Expanding foam to stop internal bleeding [Re: Arney]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3760
Loc: TX
Quote:
Blast, do you have any links? I was interested in learning more about how the foam is applied, but couldn't find anything that definitively indicated which bodily spaces the foam goes into.


I think you probably saw the same links I did. I did a patent search for this but I couldn't find anything with that.

Thinking back to my experiences with GreatStuff foam, it seems to prefer sticking to itself rather than anything else, especially anything wet and slippery. Maybe the foam just doesn't like to expand into every nook and cranny and prefers to stay as uni-blockish as possible.
-Blast, who made up the word "uni-blockish"
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#254682 - 12/16/12 05:31 AM Re: Expanding foam to stop internal bleeding [Re: Arney]
CANOEDOGS Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1853
Loc: MINNESOTA
the more i read about this stuff the more it seems like it would be real easy to kill someone if you were not a highly trained medical professional..

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#254683 - 12/16/12 05:41 AM Re: Expanding foam to stop internal bleeding [Re: CANOEDOGS]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: CANOEDOGS
the more i read about this stuff the more it seems like it would be real easy to kill someone if you were not a highly trained medical professional..

The juxtaposition here is that if you have access to highly trained medical professionals, you probably don't need the foam in the first place. I could see potential use for it on the military battlefield possibly, but not much use in normal civilian times. But it's a new concept, so who knows where it will find use? Sounds a bit on the weird and scary side to me, but then so does using leeches on wounds, and they still do that today.

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#254710 - 12/17/12 08:40 PM Re: Expanding foam to stop internal bleeding [Re: Arney]
JPickett Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/03/12
Posts: 264
Loc: Missouri
"the more i read about this stuff the more it seems like it would be real easy to kill someone if you were not a highly trained medical professional.."
Thats always been true, ever since Cain.

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