Equipped To Survive Equipped To Survive® Presents
The Survival Forum
Where do you want to go on ETS?

Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#253841 - 11/26/12 06:25 AM Signal Mirror flash seen from the air
rafowell Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 261
Loc: Southern California
This (excellent) eight-minute National Park Service safety video for Big Bend Park in Texas includes a 3 second segment showing the flashes of a signal mirror as seen from an aircraft.

It is an unusually good example of how much more visible a signal mirror flash makes you - taken at a decent range, viewable up to HD 1080P quality.

The flash is nearly four minutes in, so here's a link that starts you set to HD 720p video 5 seconds before the flashes:

For the full effect, you can immediately pause the video, set quality to 1080p using the "gear" icon at the bottom left margin, and go to full screen with the bottom leftmost icon before proceeding.

For the full video on YouTube (and I do recommend it), go here: Full Video on YouTube (more options for video size, etc.) or click below:





Edited by rafowell (11/26/12 06:31 AM)
Edit Reason: make link more prominent
_________________________
A signal mirror should backup a radio distress signal, like a 406 MHz PLB (ACR PLB) (Ocean Signal PLB)

Top
#253842 - 11/26/12 11:16 AM Re: Signal Mirror flash seen from the air [Re: rafowell]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
I took in the entire video. I agree it is an excellent, rational discussion of real outdoor hazards. The cost/benefit ratio of a signal mirror is undeniable. I understand there are instances of mirror flashes alerting aircraft out of sight or hearing - the flashers were simply sweeping the horizon at regular intervals. Can you corroborate?
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

Top
#253846 - 11/26/12 03:24 PM Re: Signal Mirror flash seen from the air [Re: rafowell]
Glock-A-Roo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
Great find as usual. Thanks Rafowell!

Top
#253880 - 11/26/12 11:47 PM Re: Signal Mirror flash seen from the air [Re: rafowell]
KenK Offline
"Be Prepared"
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 2210
Loc: NE Wisconsin
I enjoyed the full video.

Its nice to know how effective a simple signal mirror can be.

I've always wondered about the effectiveness of typical signaling devices at NIGHT. Does a fairly bright flashlight even have a chance of being seen in a remote area (with essentially no other man-made light sources)? Doug had reviewed hand-held laser devices - I wonder how likely it is that one of those will be seen by an aircraft that is up "looking".

Top
#253881 - 11/27/12 12:17 AM Re: Signal Mirror flash seen from the air [Re: rafowell]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
I don't have any experience with contemporary flashlights, but I have seen ACR 4F Firefly strobes routinely work effectively with helicopters on night operations. I don't know the lumen rating of the Firefly, but I suspect that some of the higher powered lights of today are equivalent.
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

Top
#253885 - 11/27/12 01:08 AM Re: Signal Mirror flash seen from the air [Re: rafowell]
BigToe Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 81
Another good reason to EDC a decent flashlight. Any light may help - I had to dig for this one, which I remembered reading when it occurred in 2008.

"And a 17-year-old girl who was lost in a remote area of New Zealand, at night, in August of 2008 was found when the crew of a rescue helicopter used night-vision goggles to spot the backlight on the girl's cell phone."

Yahoo News Item - Cellphone Light Guides Rescue Helicopter

I couldn't track down the original article but I believe it was verified.
_________________________
Men have become the tools of their tools.
Henry David Thoreau

Top
#253888 - 11/27/12 02:00 AM Re: Signal Mirror flash seen from the air [Re: BigToe]
Pete Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1372
last post ... she was spotted by the backlight of a cell phone ... that is one lucky Kiwi!
HAHAHAHA!!!!!

But back to the signal mirror topic ...
A few years ago I was talking to a CA coast guard pilot (helicopter) and asking him what method for emergency signalling was best ... flares, bright color markings, signal mirrors etc. His reply was that on a day with good weather (direct sunlight) the signal mirror was by far the most effective way of attracting help from aircraft - it could easily been seen from over 20 miles away.

Pete2


Edited by Pete (11/27/12 02:01 AM)

Top
#253893 - 11/27/12 02:33 PM Re: Signal Mirror flash seen from the air [Re: BigToe]
paramedicpete Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1920
Loc: Frederick, Maryland
I can verify this one:

FNP Story - Cell Phone Used In Rescue

Pete

Top
#253917 - 11/27/12 05:59 PM Re: Signal Mirror flash seen from the air [Re: rafowell]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
A small mirror has an extremely high benefit/weight ratio. Just for a fun comparison to a flashlight, I wonder how many lumens a reflection of the sun from one of those small mirrors would be. I know a flashlight would be at night, etc.
_________________________
If you're reading this, it's too late.

Top
#253937 - 11/28/12 07:45 AM Re: Signal Mirror flash seen from the air [Re: hikermor]
rafowell Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 261
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: hikermor
<snip> I understand there are instances of mirror flashes alerting aircraft out of sight or hearing - the flashers were simply sweeping the horizon at regular intervals. Can you corroborate?


I don't remember a reported example of that actually happening (though my memory could be the fault).

Certainly, since at least August 1943, the instructions printed on the back of US (and other) military mirrors have recommended sweeping the horizon in the hopes of this.

Sample instruction language:

  • US military issued glass MIL-M-18371 mirrors (1950s to current day)

    "EVEN THOUGH NO AIRCRAFT OF SHIPS ARE IN SIGHT, CONTINUE SWEEPING THE HORIZON FOR MIRROR FLASHES MAY BE SEEN FOR MANY MILES, EVEN IN HAZY WEATHER."

  • French SOS-643 Military mirror (like American B-1 from 1945) Feb. 1954

    "Even though, no aircraft of ships are in sight continue sweepink [sic] the horizon. Mirror flashes may be seen 10 miles, away even in hazy weather."

  • BuAer Spec 23M5 (AER) ca. 1950

    EVEN THOUGH NO AIRCRAFT OF SHIPS ARE IN SIGHT, CONTINUE SWEEPING THE HORIZON. MIRROR FLASHES MAY BE SEEN FOR MANY MILES, EVEN IN HAZY WEATHER.

  • NAVY VERSION OF ESM/I : 11/1943:
    ESM/2
    B-I Red retroreflective aimer mirror, 1945:

    "PRACTICE SWEEPING HORIZON WITH AIMED BEAM EVEN IF NO RESCUER IS IN SIGHT, AS MIRROR HAS A RANGE UP TO TEN MILES."

  • GENERAL ELECTRIC ESM/I Double-sided mirror (cross-shaped aperture):
    PROTOTYPE: 8/1943: ( ALSO ARMY VERSION, SPEC 40654) 11/1943

    "WHEN RESCUE CRAFT ARE NOT VISIBLE, PRACTICE SWEEPING CROSS SHAPED SPOT ALONG THE HORIZON. FLASH MAY BE SEEN 10 MILES"

_________________________
A signal mirror should backup a radio distress signal, like a 406 MHz PLB (ACR PLB) (Ocean Signal PLB)

Top
#253939 - 11/28/12 08:16 AM Re: 2x3" mirror = 300 lumens, 4.4 million candela [Re: ireckon]
rafowell Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 261
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: ireckon
<snip> I wonder how many lumens a reflection of the sun from one of those small mirrors would be.<snip>


Per a Navy manual, a 3x5" glass mirror on a bright sunny day is 8 million candlepower. The actual number is going to be a function of the sun elevation, atmospheric clarity, mirror reflectance, and the sun to target angle included at the mirror.

My calculation:

Aiming at the horizon, assuming a mirror reflectance of 0.85, and the sun directly overhead (beam 45 deg off mirror surface normal), using a standard solar flux atmosphere model[1], I arrived at 4.4 million candela (the modern unit for candlepower) for a mirror surface of 6 square inches (a bit more than the net area of a 2"x3" mirror). That is in rough agreement with the Navy manual, after accounting for the different mirror size. However, the candlepower is so impressive because the beam is so small, not because of the power involved.

A candela is a lumen/steradian, and using 0.5358 deg for the sun diameter (median diameter over the year), all that power is going into a beam subtending only 1/14,560 of a steradian. So, to get lumens, I multiply candelas by 1/14,560, getting 300 lumens.

So, at high noon, beaming to the horizon (in any direction) we are talking 300 lumens - high, but not impressive per se. The reason it is so bright is that all those lumens are being crammed into 1/14,560 of a steradian beam, hence the 4.4 million candlepower.

[1] http://stjarnhimlen.se/comp/radfaq.html#10


Edited by rafowell (11/28/12 08:32 AM)
Edit Reason: Fix math error.
_________________________
A signal mirror should backup a radio distress signal, like a 406 MHz PLB (ACR PLB) (Ocean Signal PLB)

Top
#253940 - 11/28/12 08:23 AM Re: Signal Mirror flash seen from the air [Re: rafowell]
Phaedrus Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3164
Loc: Big Sky Country
Yeah, makes my Surefire & JETBeam lights seem kinda wimpy! grin I always have my Ritter PSP with mirror on me when I'm out hiking or camping. It's good to know a mirror is such a powerful signalling device.
_________________________
“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman

Top
#254635 - 12/14/12 02:11 AM Re: Signal Mirror flash seen from the air [Re: rafowell]
duckear Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/01/04
Posts: 478
video won't play, states it is private

Top
#254671 - 12/15/12 08:54 AM Re: Signal Mirror flash seen from the air [Re: duckear]
rafowell Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 261
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: duckear
video won't play, states it is private


So it does, and I can't find a viewable version anywhere. Odd. I put in an email to the Big Bend park staff asking them if there's anywhere we can view it.
_________________________
A signal mirror should backup a radio distress signal, like a 406 MHz PLB (ACR PLB) (Ocean Signal PLB)

Top
#255122 - 01/03/13 01:54 AM Signal Mirror flash is now back on the air [Re: rafowell]
rafowell Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 261
Loc: Southern California
The full eight-minute National Park Service safety video for Big Bend Park in Texas:

"This Video Could Save Your Life" by Reine Wonite,

is now back online, and can be viewed and/or downloaded here.

Since the signal mirror flash is 5 minutes into the video, I've extracted it and posted it on YouTube here:
Aerial Signal Flash Footage at YouTube
where you can view it at different sizes and resolutions, forward the link, etc.

I've also embedded a lo-res version here -
it pales compared to the 1080P full-screen version you can see on YouTube, but is very convenient:



I like it because it is (by far) the crispest aerial footage of a signal mirror flash that I've seen.


Edited by rafowell (01/03/13 02:11 AM)
Edit Reason: mentioned full screen version
_________________________
A signal mirror should backup a radio distress signal, like a 406 MHz PLB (ACR PLB) (Ocean Signal PLB)

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >



Moderator:  Alan_Romania, Blast, cliff, Hikin_Jim 
November
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
Who's Online
2 registered (Ren, Jeanette_Isabelle), 663 Guests and 14 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Aaron_Guinn, israfaceVity, Explorer9, GallenR, Jeebo
5370 Registered Users
Newest Posts
Leather Work Gloves
by dougwalkabout
11/16/24 05:28 PM
Satellite texting via iPhone, 911 via Pixel
by Ren
11/05/24 03:30 PM
Emergency Toilets for Obese People
by adam2
11/04/24 06:59 PM
For your Halloween enjoyment
by brandtb
10/31/24 01:29 PM
Chronic Wasting Disease, How are people dealing?
by clearwater
10/30/24 05:41 PM
Things I Have Learned About Generators
by roberttheiii
10/29/24 07:32 PM
Gift ideas for a fire station?
by brandtb
10/27/24 12:35 AM
Newest Images
Tiny knife / wrench
Handmade knives
2"x2" Glass Signal Mirror, Retroreflective Mesh
Trade School Tool Kit
My Pocket Kit
Glossary
Test

WARNING & DISCLAIMER: SELECT AND USE OUTDOORS AND SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT, SUPPLIES AND TECHNIQUES AT YOUR OWN RISK. Information posted on this forum is not reviewed for accuracy and may not be reliable, use at your own risk. Please review the full WARNING & DISCLAIMER about information on this site.