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#253685 - 11/22/12 06:00 PM Basic bleach info...
TeacherRO Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
Some nice basic info on bleach storage & use from Survival Mom


smart bleach storage


Teacher

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#253690 - 11/22/12 06:09 PM Re: Basic bleach info... [Re: TeacherRO]
Denis Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 631
Loc: Calgary, AB
Excellent information ... nice & concise! Thanks for sharing.
_________________________
Victory awaits him who has everything in order — luck, people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck. Roald Amundsen

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#253695 - 11/22/12 07:13 PM Re: Basic bleach info... [Re: TeacherRO]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Since the article was talking about water purification, she should've mentioned not using scented or "ultra" bleach.

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#253702 - 11/22/12 10:17 PM Re: Basic bleach info... [Re: Arney]
Quietly_Learning Offline
Member

Registered: 05/29/12
Posts: 164
Originally Posted By: Arney
Since the article was talking about water purification, she should've mentioned not using scented or "ultra" bleach.


Why not ultra bleach?

I thought ultra was just a higher concentration?

I could not find any information that ultra is unsafe. Please elaborate on the difference. Thank you

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#253708 - 11/22/12 11:29 PM Re: Basic bleach info... [Re: TeacherRO]
LesSnyder Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 1680
Loc: New Port Richey, Fla
regular Clorox is 6% sodium hypochlorite by volume... you would have different concentrations with the 8 drops per gal recommended dilution... you don't want any scented bleach

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#253710 - 11/23/12 02:24 AM Re: Basic bleach info... [Re: LesSnyder]
Quietly_Learning Offline
Member

Registered: 05/29/12
Posts: 164
Originally Posted By: LesSnyder
regular Clorox is 6% sodium hypochlorite by volume... you would have different concentrations with the 8 drops per gal recommended dilution... you don't want any scented bleach


Thank you

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#253713 - 11/23/12 04:15 AM Re: Basic bleach info... [Re: Quietly_Learning]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Quietly_Learning
Why not ultra bleach?

Actually, turns out I used the wrong label. "Ultra" bleach is normally just sodium hypochlorite (but you should always check the label) although more concentrated than the usual 5-6% concentration, so the dilution will be different than the standard instructions.

What I was thinking of are the thicker, splash-resistant kinds of bleach, like Clorox Advantage. That's what I meant when I wrote "ultra". Like scented bleach, they contain additional ingredients that you probably do not want in your drinking water.

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#253722 - 11/23/12 12:13 PM Re: Basic bleach info... [Re: Arney]
Paul810 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 1428
Loc: NJ, USA
Just a word of caution with bleach:

Bleach is an EXTREMELY dangerous chemical, even at a ~6% solution like common household bleach. One needs to be very careful with it.

Never mix bleach with any other chemicals, especially Ammonia.

If you get bleach in your eyes, immediately flush them with a large amount of water and then seek professional medical care. Bleach is a strong alkali (base) that can actually dissolve eyes tissue to the point of severe and permanent damage.


As part of Bleach storage, I would definitely keep some eye protection and rubber gloves nearby.

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#253750 - 11/23/12 08:29 PM Re: Basic bleach info... [Re: Paul810]
UTAlumnus Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 1019
Loc: East Tennessee near Bristol
Bleach is an acid instead of alkaline. That's why it releases chlorine gas when mixed with ammonia. Strong acids and bases both will damage flesh if you get them on you. Always pour acids into other fluids because the less reactive substance will help quench any splatter or reaction.

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#253751 - 11/23/12 08:58 PM Re: Basic bleach info... [Re: UTAlumnus]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Chlorine gas is primarily generated when bleach and an acid are mixed. Dangerous chloramine gas is the risk when mixing bleach with ammonia.

The liquid in a bottle of bleach is strongly alkaline. Manufacturers add a strong base (sodium hydroxide) to bleach to help preserve its shelf life. The higher the pH, the more stable the active ingredients are.

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#253756 - 11/23/12 09:46 PM Re: Basic bleach info... [Re: UTAlumnus]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3858
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: UTAlumnus
Bleach is an acid instead of alkaline.


You have that backwards, I'm afraid.

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#253762 - 11/24/12 02:05 AM Re: Basic bleach info... [Re: TeacherRO]
Quietly_Learning Offline
Member

Registered: 05/29/12
Posts: 164
Bleach is a 12-13 on the ph scale. This makes it a very strong base.
Eye protection is definitely warranted if doing more then pouring it into the wash.

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#253813 - 11/25/12 08:13 PM Re: Basic bleach info... [Re: Arney]
UTAlumnus Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 1019
Loc: East Tennessee near Bristol
Originally Posted By: Arney
The liquid in a bottle of bleach is strongly alkaline. Manufacturers add a strong base (sodium hydroxide) to bleach to help preserve its shelf life. The higher the pH, the more stable the active ingredients are.


Chem lab was too many years ago. I was thinking it was the chlorine ions that made it acid instead of the hydrogen ions and getting it confused with hydrochloric acid.

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#253862 - 11/26/12 07:36 PM Re: Basic bleach info... [Re: UTAlumnus]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: UTAlumnus
Chem lab was too many years ago. I was thinking it was the chlorine ions that made it acid instead of the hydrogen ions and getting it confused with hydrochloric acid.

Acid-base chemistry can be very confusing, even when you're actually studying it. It doesn't help that there are multiple ways of defining an acid or base, let alone all those weird chemical names that sound so similar. Don't sweat it, UT.

That said, there can be a use for mixing bleach with an acid. I can't find where I first read it, but since the disinfecting form of sodium hypochlorite is most available at lower (i.e. more acidic) pH levels there were some scientists who studied the disinfecting power of common bleach under different conditions. (And is why the most stable, unreactive form is in the highly alkaline pH state inside the bottle of bleach).

They found that getting the solution down to around a pH of 4 creates a potent santizing solution, for example, for cleaning up after a flood event. I was just reading an article recently that after Sandy, some other scientists were measuring the level of bacteria on household items that had been submerged in the NY area. The storm had damaged the underground pipes and sewage was mixing into the flood waters. Even after sitting out in the sun for a week, the scientists were still finding surprisingly high levels of bacterial contamination on the items that residents had dragged outside. The result doesn't necessarily mean that ALL bacteria were found at high levels, but it does suggest that harmful ones can stick around longer than most people expect, so people need to be careful with protective equipment and measures, like hand washing before eating after handling flood damaged debris, even this long after the event. Mold is another danger and health hazard.

Anyway, the scientsts say that a cup of bleach and a cup of vinegar diluted into a gallon of water makes a highly potent disinfecting solution. It can even destroy bacterial spores. The article didn't mention anything about chlorine gas being generated, so I think the solution is dilute enough to not produce chlorine in any significant quantity but even so, it's probably best to use in a well ventilated environment. Use this info at your own risk!

Oh, come to think of it, I think I originally read about this after the anthrax attacks. I believe the scientists were looking for cost effective ways to decontaminate large areas because that requires a lot of disinfecting solution, which can get very expensive for some commercial product that bills itself as being able to decontaminate bioterror agents.

Anyway, a bit beyond the level of "basic" bleach info.

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#253869 - 11/26/12 10:37 PM Re: Basic bleach info... [Re: TeacherRO]
LCranston Offline
2
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/31/09
Posts: 201
Loc: Nebraska
Going to the comments from the article-

a poster called "gary"

""A better option than storing bleach is storing calcium hypochlorite, which when combined with water, will make bleach. 1 lb. of this is will purify 10,000 gallons of water and will cost you about $10 plus shipping on Ebay. It will, for all intents and purposes, store for an indefinite period. It is highly caustic, so it has to be stored properly, but at least you won’t have to worry about getting rid of it after 6 months. Calcium hypochlorite is also known as “pool shock”, so you can often find it at pool supply stores, but look carefully, because most of the pool shock I’ve seen has other additives you don’t want in your drinking water.""

I picked up 16 ounces from target for 1.98 at end of pool season.
As one teaspoon will make 2 gallons "stock Chlorine solution"

that should cover me for a decade

reference link http://water.epa.gov/drink/emerprep/emergencydisinfection.cfm looking under "choose a disinfection method

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#253876 - 11/26/12 11:05 PM Re: Basic bleach info... [Re: TeacherRO]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3858
Loc: USA
I wrote a quick instruction sheet for my family on how to use pool shock to disinfect water. You can find the thread here: http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=245217 .

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#258379 - 03/30/13 07:36 PM Re: Basic bleach info... [Re: TeacherRO]
TeacherRO Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
I write on the sides of the bottles whats in them and date -- " water +bleach 3/30/13"

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