After 15 days I'm starting to get back to some sense of normalcy here. Here are some notes I made during and after Hurricane Sandy:

On power:
First and foremost, at the start of a major storm unplug your computer/tv/and other sensitive electronics!

My cousin lost one of the electric wires coming into their house (the ground wire of the three phase), which fried all their TVs, their microwave, their computers, their water heater, and their fridge. I'm not sure if it caused a surge or what, but it killed almost all the electronic stuff in the house.

Also worth noting, I had a friend that lost water shortly after the power went out, even though he is on city water fed from a water tower. Luckily they got water back shortly, but for a few days he was getting buckets of water from his pool to flush his toilets. Even if you don't have a well, you should plan to lose water with an extended power outage and be pleasantly surprised if you don't.

On generators:
My parents had a 7000watt gasoline generator with a transfer switch into their home. Great setup for short term, as it powers mostly their entire home (including the heat). For a longer term though, it's terrible. Running it from when you wake up to when you go to bed burned about 11 gallons a day. With the power out for 13 days they went through almost 140 gallons of gas. They had 28 gallons on hand, which meant, for the rest of the gas, I was siphoning some of our trucks. Ended up having to drain two K5 blazers that we use as plow trucks and our one gas engine 3500 dump truck.

Luckily I was able to get the gas, but it was a real annoying situation even without waiting on gas lines, hence the whole family now ordering 20kw natural gas/propane standby generators. They plumb right into the homes natural gas line (or a propane tank), kick on within 15 seconds of the power going out, and run everything (including the central air in the summer). No more time wasted finding gas and refilling generators, which could be better spent doing other things.

Now my neighbor had a little 2000watt Briggs and Stratton inverter generator, which was much more sustainable. He burned about 2 gallons a day running his fridge, a small tv/vcr, and the Verizon ONT box for his cable/internet (as well as charging his phone/laptop intermittently). Between that, some movies, and his fireplace he was warm, fed, entertained, and able to communicate

On communication:
Even with a generator, you might not have cable tv and internet. With Comcast cable we apparently have some sort of amplifier on the pole by our house. When the pole lost power we lost cable too (well, that and a tree took out one of the cable legs). Now our neighbor had Verizon Fios cable/internet, and he lost cable/internet when the power went out too. But he ran an extension cord to power the Fios box (ONT) on the side of his house and once he did that he had cable and internet. Worth noting, the ONT from Verizon has a battery backup, but it only lasts for a few hours, at which point the system draws about 40 watts to run and recharge the battery. When the backup battery is fully charged it only draws about 16 watts.

Luckily, we never lost landline phone service. Which, made me extremely glad I didn't go with Comcast's Triple Play cable/internet/phone! With the generator off, we had to use the old style plug in phones (no cordless), but that was a minor inconvenience. Cell phones were a different story. I've got Verizon and they would work intermittently. Texting often got through when calls wouldn't (though only text based texts, picture messages wouldn't work at all). Now my friends with Sprint, their cell phones didn't work at all. We couldn't get a hold of my cousin at all, as they lost land line phone, internet, and cell.

Now with no cable, no internet, and little cell phone service we relied pretty heavily on the radio. A crank radio that can do both FM/AM is an absolute must have. We also have a police scanner, which provided a lot of local information. We were listening to the local police and fire freq. and making a list of which roads were blocked off and which areas were hit the hardest.

A couple days after the storm we got some newspapers (oddly delivered by our mail carrier), which was nice to have. Not just for news, but for entertainment as well.

On Security:

General looting/stealing was the biggest issue.

After the storm the town used little Honda EU3000 generators to run the street lights. Well they chained them up with a light duty chain and during the night someone must have come by with a set of bolt cutters and liberated one or two of them. After that, they brought in larger trailer size generators for the street lights, I guess figuring they were harder to walk away with.

After hearing about that, I got some heavy binder chain and locks and chained my generator to a tree. I also took all my gas and diesel cans and locked them in the shed. I made sure not to leave anything out that could be easily walked away with.

Besides that, the other big security concern for me was the gas station lines. Some of these gas stations were on the verge of rioting. A buddy of mine that owns a gas station even had his life threatened.

Besides that, I thought it presented a pretty good opportunity for robbery. I figured people that were angry they couldn't get gas after waiting on line all day might decide to follow you and try to take yours. Not sure if that happened at all, but I figured it was best to avoid the gas stations as much as possible.

On pumps:
No electricity means the basement sump pump won't work. A lot of people lost the stuff in their basement because they had no way to pump out any water at all. All they could do was sit there and watch their basement fill with water. If you own a home, you should definitely have some way to get rid of water in a basement if the power goes out. Be it a generator to power your sump pump, a battery back-up for the sump pump, or a separate gas powered pump. If you've got the money, it's probably not a bad idea to have all three available to you. Even a small 1" gas powered pump is only a couple hundred bucks, is easily portable, runs on very little gas, and pumps about as fast as a typical sump pump. Combine that with a sump pump running off a generator and you can drain a typical basement pretty quickly.

On fuel:
Speaking of pumps, No Power = No gas pumps. Initially gasoline was the hardest to find. The few stations that had power to pump it would run out in about 4 hours. With the refinery closed, they then couldn't restock their tanks. Shortly after, propane became hard to find. No 20lb cylinders to be had anywhere. Curiously though, I could still easily get the industrial 33lb propane tanks used for running forklifts and such. I have to look into those and see if there is a way to use them somehow. I think they have a dip tube, so you can't use them directly in place of a 20lb consumer tank. However, I might be able to fill a 20lb tank off of them.

Diesel was probably the most available. Even after stations started running out within a week or so, you could still get it from construction yards and other people with their own private tanks (if you asked them nicely). I still had 1200+ gallons on hand in my yard (kept my diesel generator and another neighbors diesel generator humming along nicely). Another contractor friend of mine had about 5000 gallons left in his tanks. Also worth noting, the IRS suspended the diesel tax during the state of emergency, so you could legally run dyed diesel in on-road vehicles.

On tools and spare parts:
Have spare spark plugs, spare engine oil, and spare two-stroke oil on hand. Two stroke oil nearly disappeared from store shelves. Also have some carb/choke cleaner on hand, I ended up having to clean a few gummed up generator and chainsaw carburetors for neighbors.

Flashlights were vital. Make sure you have more than you think you need, make sure you have spare batteries, make sure you have spare bulbs. Even if you use rechargeable batteries, make sure to have a good stock of old fashioned alkalines. I ended up giving away a bunch to neighbors that didn't have enough spares or ran out. We didn't use many lanterns as we had lights inside the house with the generator, but neighbors that didn't relied heavily on them within the house.

Also vital were plenty of blankets and sleeping bags. While we had heat during the day, once we shut off the generator we had no heat at night. It's amazing how cold it gets inside the house. Most of my neighbors have fireplaces, so those that couldn't run their heat relied heavily on their fireplace for heat. If you have one, make sure it's in good working shape and that you've got plenty of wood/propane/whatever fuel you use on hand.

Caution Tape came in very handy. We ended up closing off sections of our street and some nearby streets with caution tape, as there were numerous live power wires/trees/telephone poles down and cars kept trying to drive through it. Normally the fire department would come and do that, but they were severely back logged and couldn't make it to our area.

Other tools and gear that came in handy after the storm were a pocket knife/multi-tool, long kitchen lighter/matches, rope, branch loppers, chain saw, bow saw, small house axe, 10lb sledge hammer with wedges, leaf rakes, brooms, leaf blower, work gloves, safety glasses, and a small ratchet set with spark plug sockets.

On boredom:
With no power, tv, internet, limited phone service, etc it could get awfully boring. Especially at night and for kids. Make sure you've got plenty of board games/card games on hand, as well as old fashioned paper books. These were getting traded and passed around the neighborhood to help keep everyone occupied. With the generator, myself and a few other neighbors/relatives also had the luxury of watching dvds. A lot of these got passed around too. Don't forget to spend some quality time with your pets too, as I could tell that my dog was a bit thrown off by the whole change in routine and needed a little comforting here and there.

On getting my utilities back:
I'm not sure if this is the exact order of how things are supposed to go down, but this how they seemed to happen here:

1. Fire department would close off dangerous areas/streets.
2. The fire department and utility crews with the fire department would work to keep main roads open and stop immediately dangerous situations (like shutting off power to downed lines that were burning the ground) During this time power is also killed to whole areas if the damage is deemed too great.
3. Utility companies, town public works trucks, and various officials would ride around assessing area damage after storm. This is also when we got generators attached to our traffic lights to get them functioning again.
4. Town DPW trucks and other sub-contractors would clear trees on main roads and cut dangerous trees on side roads where it was safe for them to do so.
5. Once the trees are moved, power company can then check individual poles and services on their end. They remove immediate electrical problems, thereby making poles safe for other utility crews.
6. Individuals are told to fix the service on their end where applicable. (Time to hire an electrician!)
7. Cable and phone crews can move in to restore their individual services.
8. Power company starts getting power back on to select areas, starting with least damaged areas centering near main roads. Last is side streets with heavy damage and poles needing replacement.
9. Town DPW returns to remove whatever trees and debris they cut, but didn't clear.

We didn't see a single power company truck working by our area for about a week, which led to a lot of people wondering where the heck they were. However, there was about 7 trucks working at the substation nearby. Not sure how all that works, but it definitely seemed like they had to fix that substation before they could even think about working on the lines heading to various neighborhoods. Our area was one of the last places to get power in town. We're on a dead end side street that needed to have three poles replaced.

On insurance and the like:
If you live anywhere near a potential flood area, get flood insurance!

I have four friends whose homes were basically complete losses due to flooding and storm surge. I have another who lost a lot of the stuff around his home and in his garage due to flooding, but thankfully his house was spared. One didn't have flood insurance and he is stuck paying for it completely out of pocket. Thankfully, it's a vacation home, so he still has his primary residence and his job (he's a self employed electrician). But, if that was his only home, he would have nothing right now. At least with flood insurance he would have something to rebuild with.

If you have a business, make sure you have Business Interruption insurance!

I have two friends who weren't able to run their businesses for two weeks. Both had Business Interruption insurance and both are getting checks from their insurance providers. While it's a bit less than what they would have made in the course of two weeks, it's something. One of them also called FEMA to see if they would provide any assistance for loss of work. He was told the only assistance they could receive was a small business loan.

On Evacuation:
If you are told to evacuate, take your pets!! Quite a few people left their pets behind, and now those pets have to be rescued. If you have a dog/cat, make sure you own a travel crate/pet carrier for them.

Also, when told to evacuate, take anything else you deem irreplaceable, like family pictures and paperwork. When you're told to evacuate, you don't know when or if you'll ever be able to come back. Therefore, you should plan accordingly.

To give you an idea on time frame, if you're not a permanent resident, this last weekend was the first time since the evacuation you could return to see your property in some areas along the shore. Even then, you're only allowed to bring in two suitcases with you to remove items. You get on a bus in the morning, it takes you to the area, and then you get bussed out at 3pm. These people can't even begin to truly clean up and rebuild yet, and it's been 15 days since the storm.

Count your Blessings:
All in all, I feel amazingly lucky that the worst of my issues were a few downed trees and the loss of a few utilities. Many lost their lives and many more lost their homes. The devastation in some areas is unimaginable. It's going to take years to get parts of the shore back to even a shadow of its former self. Places that I enjoyed visiting as a child have been wiped completely off the map. It's so unbelievably heart wrenching.

If there is one good thing from all this, it's that many of us were able to count on the help and love of friends, neighbors, and even complete strangers. I know in my area it's made us a stronger and closer knit community.

I wish all of you the best and I hope these notes prove useful to your disaster preps.

I'm glad you made it through okay. Thank you very much for the report.

Thanks Paul.

This is the best report I have seen yet on this forum and others.

Lots of valuable info to be gleaned here and I am taking some mental notes. The info on the generator gas consumption is staggering. Up here with gas hovering around $5.50 per gallon x 140 gallons = $770.00 which would put a lot of people in some financial hurt along with other expenses incurred and I am sure that a lot of people down there had smaller or no paychecks due to the storm.

Glad that you and your family and friends have made it through this and once again, thanks for the excellent report.

Phenomenal post. Thank you for it, certainly should be tagged or maybe put on the ETS homepage. Glad you made it through relatively well.

Thanks guys!

I actually forgot one.

On Security:

General looting/stealing was the biggest issue.

After the storm the town used little Honda EU3000 generators to run the street lights. Well they chained them up with a light duty chain and during the night someone must have come by with a set of bolt cutters and liberated one or two of them. After that, they brought in larger trailer size generators for the street lights, I guess figuring they were harder to walk away with.

After hearing about that, I got some heavy binder chain and locks and chained my generator to a tree. I also took all my gas and diesel cans and locked them in the shed. I made sure not to leave anything out that could be easily walked away with.

Besides that, the other big security concern for me was the gas station lines. Some of these gas stations were on the verge of rioting. A buddy of mine that owns a gas station even had his life threatened.

Besides that, I thought it presented a pretty good opportunity for robbery. I figured people that were angry they couldn't get gas after waiting on line all day might decide to follow you and try to take yours. Not sure if that happened at all, but I figured it was best to avoid the gas stations as much as possible.

Excellent write up, Paul! Very informative.

Did you have to venture beyond walking distance of home much?

And what was your food/cooking experience--yours or your neighbors? You briefly mentioned propane, but not sure if you were actually using any propane appliances.

Thanks for the excellent descriptive post on the difficulties of living without grid electricity.

Did your cousin have an RCD circuit breaker panel built in? Sounds like one of these could have saved all his kit from being fried not to mention your cousin if he was touching a metal computer case or mowing the lawn with his electric lawnmower for example when this happened.



I think we can safely assume that this power outage will have certainly encouraged even more folks to become prepared and will purchase large powered gasoline generators in the future making the gasoline shortages even more pronounced come the next grid outage.

Thanks for the writeup!

My greatest impression from the experience was: If you don't already have it, you are not going to find it shortly before or anytime after the event.

down here we have a pretty descriptive saying:

"run from the water"...storm surge and fresh water flooding kills

"hide from the wind".... evacuate, board up, or hunker down as your emergency plan dictates... keep a radio tuned for tornadoes that spin off

the rest is enduring the aftermath until normal returns...

lessons learned come a few at a time...if you have lived in an area for a while, try to pass on some of the lessons learned to others, especially new residents...

the internet allows you to reach out to a wider audience with your knowledge, and in return, learn from others..

these after action reports and lessons learned forums are a great source of information...

Yes, I had to drive around quite a bit in order to check our rental properties, get gas and fuel from our equipment yard, etc. The first couple days were very difficult, most roads were blocked with trees and down lines. Traffic lights didn't work, leading to a lot of confusion (and accidents) at busy intersections. Street lights didn't work making it extremely dark and difficult to see obstacles at night. The highways seemed to be the best bet, if you could get to them. Even then it was slow going and parts of some highways were heavily flooded.

My neighbor completely gave up on using his car, instead deciding to use his bicycle. He would strap a gas can to the pannier rack and off he went. Not sure if he ever made it back with any gas, but I know he got around pretty well like that.


As far as cooking goes, we couldn't use our stove, which is electric and not plumbed into the transfer panel. Our cook tops are natural gas and worked fine as long as you lit them with the kitchen lighter/matches (as the ignition system relies on electricity to spark the gas). We made a lot of soups, stews, and chili. With the generator, we still had our freeze and microwave, so we made a few tv dinners too. One day we plugged in the toaster and actually popped a circuit breaker on the transfer panel. Never realized it, but that thing must draw 1500+ watts (12+ amps) at startup.

For the first couple days not a single restaurant was open. They had no power and then with no power their freezers and refrigerators went south, requiring them to throw out almost all their food. The first places I saw back in business were a pizza place one town over and a McDonalds. Wait time for a pizza was 3 1/2 hours takeout. The line at McDonalds looked like the gas lines.

They say to have enough food on hand for three days, that's probably the bare minimum. I would say have enough food on hand for at least 5-7 days. I think by the fourth or fifth day we were able to get pizza with a reasonable wait time.




In the states, we're only required to have over-current protection on our circuit panels. Certain individual outlets are required to be GFCI outlets (RCD), but only in certain areas (like the bathroom, the garage, outside, within so many feet of a plumbing fixture, etc). A lot of pre-1970's homes don't have them. I'm not sure if my cousin has them, I'll have to look next time I'm over there.



I thought that would have been true after hurricane Irene, when it seemed like everyone bought a generator. But then I found that a lot of people who didn't use them or only used them for a short while turned around and sold them on Craigslist/in the newspaper/ebay/etc. I guess they figured they wouldn't ever need them again.

So now, they all went back out and bought generators yet again for Sandy. It will be interesting to see how many hold onto them and whether or not Craigslist and the like will have a glut of used ones for sale.



That's basically it. Five days before the storm it became difficult to find things like generators and pumps. Now, 15+ days later, they're still nearly impossible to find.

If you don't have it two-weeks before the storm, don't plan on having it during the storm and after the storm....unless you just happen to get lucky.

I suspect most of the folks in this Forum are familiar with the triage system for restoring electricity, but here is how they do it in the PNW, courtesy of Puget Sound Energy's website: http://pse.com/aboutpse/PseNewsroom/MediaKit/3813_how_power_gets_restored.pdf

My experience has been, the more you begin to see power crews out and servicing your neighborhood electrical lines, the better the offers of food and water etc to the crews doing the work. They're typically on shifts of 12-16 hours on and 12-8 hours off, and coming from places like Wyoming and Kansas to restore power. They really bust their butts, and occasionally one or a few of them die doing this work. After 9 days without power we offered warm food and hot drinks, and they strung the power line to our house that was literally the last 200 ft of line in our zip code - plus they fixed the metal pipe on our roof that the line runs into, which is usually another step that you have to contact a local electrician to do.

Fire fighters, cops, and linemen for the county - three of the best professions if you ask me.

It's interesting that so many folks have garages full of stuff they haven't used in 20 years, but they're selling off their generators shortly after buying them?

I'm curious if the generators just didn't meet their expectations? Maybe they were disappointed that they couldn't keep "everything" in their home going with the little portable gennie that they battled to buy at the big box store in the aftermath of some big storm?

Expectations should be based on information, but for panic purchases, that often isn't the case and they just knew at that point in time that they wanted a generator--any generator. When it didn't meet their inflated expectations, they end up with buyer's remorse and want to get rid of it, even if they have a perfectly fine piece of equipment now. I don't know. Just a theory.

Interesting thought about diesel generators. I lost my gas 7.5k generator due to equipment failure about 3 days in. It turns out to be due to dynamo failure. At least part of the failure is due to a PLASTIC endbell! Unfortunately, Coleman went out of business (Powermate, the name was bought out by someone) and parts are NOT available. I am considering a diesel genset but failures in CT are frequently due to down wires (read...snow). Given the difficulties in starting a diesel in the cold without power, wouldn't it be difficult to run a diesel genset. This particular storm was in relatively WARM weather.

I like the idea of having a small gas generator to run JUST essentials. I might steal this idea.

I like the idea of chaining up gas supplies. Looting was NOT a problem this time around where I am but you are right; I should chain up the gas cans once a storm is forecast.

Conway Yee

Awesome post! I had an epiphany moment just the day before the storm was supposed to hit. I had gotten some things together, but hadn't really gotten anything packed. Fortunately, luck smiled on us and we never lost power. Can't imagine what sort of hell we would've walked back into had we been told to evacuate. I'll have to read this thread several times to absorb it all and make a proper plan.
Again, thanks for taking the time to post this. It'll certainly help me work toward being better prepared next time.

-Jason

Being a diesel mechanic, the first big problem I notice people have with starting diesel engines in the cold is that most people fail to use the proper oil. They try to use the standard 15w40, which is only good down to about 20*F/-7*C. The old fix for that used to be switching to 10w-30 in winter.

Nowadays, we have synthetic 5w40 and even 0w40. These are good down to about -20*F and beyond. We buy CJ-4 rated 5w-40 for all our diesel equipment and it's started perfectly fine for us down to -27*F (which is the coldest we've ever had our trucks, and the block heaters weren't even plugged in!).

The second problem people have is that they fill up their generator or equipment with fuel in the summer, and then forget about it until winter. Well, winter diesel is formulated differently from summer diesel to have a lower gelling point. If you don't use the right fuel it can start to gel once the temp gets below freezing. The old fix was adding some #1 diesel (kerosene), up to about a 50/50 mix.

Nowadays we have diesel anti-gel additives (also called diesel winter conditioner). This stuff can keep a diesel engine starting down to about -40*F. We use Power Service Diesel Fuel Supplement (comes in white bottle).

The third problem comes down to batteries. Diesels require a higher torque starter than a typical gas engine and therefore require more amps at startup. If you've got an electric starter you want to make sure you've got batteries in good condition that are well charged. We use smart trickle chargers to help maintain batteries on seldom used equipment (specifically Deltran Battery Tenders).

If you use the right oil, use a good anti-gel, and perform basic battery maintenance, you shouldn't have any problems starting a diesel genset in winter.


[On a side note, just like you keep spare spark plugs on hand for a gas engine, I recommend keeping spare fuel filters on hand for a diesel. I like to change them when I change the oil, about every 200-400 hours. On gas generators I'll change the plugs and oil every ~100 hours.]

Are there any issues using winter diesel in the summer?

Nope, never had any problems with it. The downside though, is that winter fuel is less energy dense than summer fuel. This means, in a vehicle, you get less miles per gallon. In a generator, it means a shorter run time on a tank.

A suggestion regarding home sized diesel generators.
These normally start from a 12 volt battery (large units are more often 24 volts starting)
If you have such a diesel generator and it fails to start readily, dont forget that you can normally use jump leads from a car with a running engine.
Some people only think of jump leads for starting other vehicles, not generators.

Double check that the vehicle battery and the generator starting battery are the same voltage.

Another last ditch option for a portable generator that wont start, is to take it to someplace that has line power or a large generator available. Use a line powered charger/engine starter and allow it to warm up.
Once taken home it should start readily whilst still warm.

Both the above are are a lot of faffing around, and it would be better to keep the engine and battery in such good condition that there is no question re starting.

Paul,I see reports of whole house generators,installed,start at 5 grand,would that be accurate?

Pricing really depends on your power requirements. There are automatic standby systems that go for under $2,000, but they're only in the ~6kw range. Depending on your house, that might be enough to run everything. For me, with a 200amp service, it's not even close. If you own a mansion with a 400amp service, you're looking at spending a lot more.

The 20kw units we ordered are about $4,000 a piece shipped with the included transfer switch. We'll run the gas lines ourselves and my friend, an electrician, will install the transfer switches. We're figuring total cost should come in well under $5000 a piece, but if you had to hire someone to do the installations I'm sure you could easily eclipse that.

All in all, the first thing you need to look at is your power requirements. Then, look at applicable generator setups. At that point you can start to see how much money you're looking at and get estimates on installation.

The size of the natural gas line feeding your house is a critical cost dtiver. In our case, we could squeeze in an 8 Kw standby generator with our existing gas service, to cover (roughly) half the house, including heat, some lights, fridge and DW's medical equipment. But to go up to the next size, 12KW, would have required installing a larger feed pipe from the main gas line to the house--an estimated 8-10 K dollar increase alone over the 5K$ for the (fully installed) 8KW model. Not someting that was worth it for us. (Better use for 8-10K $).

So, IMO, cover the critical circuits first. Then, size your generator for that. You would be surpised how much power you can do without and be just fine. Most lighting circuits are, IMO, a luxury. Heat is not. Medical devices are not.

12Kw and 15Kw backup generators.


Large Panel LED TV - 120W
Laptop - 60W
LED lighting per room - 40-50W
Hi-Fi - 50W
Chest freezer 0.47 Kwhr per day
Fridge - 0.3 KwHr per day
Washing machine - 2.5 Kwhr per load
Microwave Oven - 850 W - 0.425 Kwhr for 30 minutes use per day.

Running a generator from LPG to turn the energy into electricity to heat an electric hotplate, oven or electrical central heating and water heaters (cold environments) is throwing away money $4 out of $5 spent on useful energy. (or to put it another way, if you had planned for 1 week off grid that would become 4-5 weeks off grid capability)

For hot environments where electrical cooling is required will usually mean there is plenty of free sunshine to turn in electricity.

How do they run those natural gas lines to properties - I don't think that they run up in the air over poles along with the electricity and comms cables.

Rather than spend $XX,XXX on a backup, can I ask why there is no movement to call for an actual modernisation and improve programme for the delivery of the electrical grid supply by the Operator Companies or even call for an investigation into their monopolistic activities and market rigging whilst the companies repair the lines only to be blown over once again come the next wet and windy inclement weather event. The Silence appears to be deafening.

modernisation and improve programme for the delivery of the electrical grid supply by the Operator Companies or even call for an investigation into their monopolistic activities and market rigging whilst the companies repair the lines only to be blown over once again come the next wet and windy inclement weather event. The Silence appears to be deafening.
===================================
Shoot,it took years and years and years just to get cable up here,believe it would be prohibitively expensive to take the utilities underground for the small population here.

Agreed,using generator power for heating is horribly inefficient.

8KW would be overload power here,very cool!Long term might be real nice to have,so far we have managed easily with 2kw genny,small solar and battery storage/inverters keeping us with lights,TV,computer and freezer/fridge,we arent big power users.In winter freezer contents can just be transferred to porch,its freezing there after all.Worst for us was an ice storm that took out power for 2 weeks.

In fact,only danger area for us is in pipe freezings,thats not a pleasant thing at all,pricey!But taking out freezer and transferring that power to heated insulated pipe (yup,learned that lesson the hard way) might be doable.Typical hard outage is 2-3 days here 1-2 times per winter.

SIL in Denver area (McMansion style) was just asking Mrs about house generators yesterday,they lost power and had no heat,gas furnace wouldnt run.

The replies are much appreciated as I will pass the info along.

Most entrepreneurial companies would form local power companies to provide localised power and heat systems, they are even more efficient than the National grid system overall. Even in the remote islands of the Scottish Hebrides they can do it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3n-6YHquno

In all honesty, the electrical grid is one of the most up to date of our overall infrastructure, along with cable/internet lines. It's one of the few utilities around here that I see constant improvement. As an example, recently the majority of our local telephone poles had solar panels installed, essentially creating a town-wide solar grid. They're also leasing space on cell towers and water towers for solar panels (they even approached us about putting them on the roofs of our buildings).

Now our sewers, water pipes, bridges, levees, certain highways....a lot of this stuff was put in by the Corp of Engineers around WWII and hasn't seen any major maintenance since. Much of it is in dire need of replacement and updating; and I should know since I'm a fourth generation contractor working in the underground utilities trade. I would rather see a lot of that stuff overhauled first. I mean, if I loose power for a few days, no big deal. If a large water main, gas main, or parts of a bridge let go, it can be catastrophic.

Even with the standby generator, I'm not going to rely 100% on the natural gas lines. While it's proven to be reliable for us in the past major storms, I'm planning on it possibly going out at any time. Hence I'm going to install the gas feed in such a way that I can easily switch over to a propane tank. I've already spoken with my welding gas supplier about getting a stock of 100lb propane tanks. I'm also keeping my diesel generator as a backup to that.

While powering a whole house on a standby generator might not be the most efficient system, I really don't care right now as long as it means I've got my entire house powered for a week or two in an emergency, hopefully with little or no work on my part (other than paying a gas bill).

Now, if I choose to spend the money on making it more efficient and more 'off-grid worthy' later, we could integrate it with a solar system. For now though, it beats the heck out of putting fuel or gas in a bunch of generators every 6 hours. Especially if I'm not home to do it, I was incapacitated and couldn't do it, or I can't get to the homes of elderly family members to do it for them.

Here in the UK I have installed a number of domestic sized backup generators.
One or two have been whole house units, typicly 20KVA or more.
Most are much smaller. In most homes I would connect all the lighting to the generator, provided that low energy lamps are used, then the installed load is unlikely to exceed 400 watts, and the average consumption would probably be nearer 100 watts for lighting.
With a smallish generator of say 5KVA, that allows effectively unlimited use of all low loading appliances, plus just one large appliance at a time.
For example normal use of lighting, TV, PC, refrigeration, gas central heating,and the like, plus the washing machine OR the kettle, OR the toaster, Or the microwave, but only one such appliance at a time.

Local electrical codes can come into play and complicate the planning for your automatic generator. We ran into this.

Although we identified all of the critical items, the way the code requires the installation is for each electrical panel circuit that item was on to be routed to the generator sub-panel in its entirety, and must pass inspection by the County inspectors (both electrical and gas, 2 different guys). So, if, for example, the stair lift was on one 15 amp circut, that whole circuit had to go to the sub-panel. We could not pick and choose what plug outlets where routed to the subpanel. Nor does the County electrical inspector give you any grace if you argue "But sir, there is only one thing on this 15 amp circuit, and it doesn't draw 15 amps." The inspectors assume that when the power is out, every live circuit will be plugged into up to the max. They simply will not approve a sub-panel that draws anything more than the generator is able to output.

This caused us to max out the 8KW before we maxed out all our needs, but only because of the numerous under used circuits that were routed into the sub-panel. We were able to make do by doing just what the inspectors expected---running an extension cord into one of the live circuits via a neaby wall plug that was not normally used, but included in one of the sub-panel circuits.

I asked about the possibility of re-wiring the house circuits to pick up just the critical items. My electrical contractor said it was theoretically possible, but in an already built house, would be way too expensive.

So, although I had been using a 5KW generator with heavy duty extension cords to cover everything we needed, an 8KW automatic standby generator was only adequate with a bit of fudging with a single short extension cord. My best estimate is that if everything is running at once (unlikely), we would sill be drawing just under 5KW.

Re: electrical inspectors and generators

There are specific ways that loads are to be calculated according to the NEC. You have to use a NEC approved way when you install a generator.

In neither case are you required to consider every circuit that has a 15A outlet on it as a 15A load. If I recall correctly, they are generally calculated at 180VA per receptacle. Some of them don't have to be counted at all, while those dedicated to a specific purpose have to be considered at full load.

The calculations are fairly straightforward if you are used to them but are often daunting for the uninitiated.

No doubt.

I wonder if these calculations require actually looking at what is on each circuit?

Our inspector came in, looked at: 1) the amps of each of the circuits going to the sub-panel, 2) the size of the breaker sending the power to the sub-panel, 3) the sub-panel, and 4) the size of the generator.

I'm happy we passed.

I've often found that, in theory, theory and practice are the same, but that in practice, they are not.

Great write-up Paul. I was lucky enough to be in a part of Brooklyn that was unaffected. The only thing I would add to the discussion is that people should consider getting an amateur radio license. With about 10 hours study time, and the $15 fee for the test, you have access to a communication system that is reliable after all else fails.

There are UHF/VHF repeaters all over the NY/NJ area, so those who were without power and comms were able to communicate with those of us who were still up and running to arrange supply drops, phone out to family members etc.

If nothing else, it provided a degree of comfort to some pretty shell-shocked folks in the immediate aftermath.

None of the stuff mentioned matters much as far as the code goes for sizing the generator. Some of it matters for other things though.

The size of the CB on the branch circuits has close to nothing to do with sizing any feeder, including generators.

The only outlets where an actual load is considered are those dedicated to a specific item such as a refrigerator. If it is a dedicated circuit the actual load is taken into consideration.

It is possible that he looked at it and realized that your generator was more than adequately sized and just never looked any farther. Most likely the contractor supplied load calculations so he never looked at the actual load.

Hi Paul--

This is John Galvin (Horus). I'm a contributing editor at Popular Mechanics, and I'm doing a post-Sandy report. I sent you a PM with my contact info. I found your post very interesting, but I had some questions I would appreciate asking you. Can you check your messages and let me know if you'd be willing to talk with me about your experiences/insights?

Best,
John.

Lono--

Thanks for this post. I've heard similar stories with similar disasters. I'm working on a post-Sandy story for Popular Mechanics. I sent you an private message. If you would be willing, I'd like to talk to you a little more about this. My contact info is in the message. I look forward to hearing from you.

Best,
John.

Great writeup Paul. Even though we're not likely to experience a Hurricane anytime soon here in Utah, many of the lessons are applicable to us because of snow storms, earthquake threats, etc.

Thanks again for spending the time to educate us.

Paul810, good post. I would like to add a few thing I learned. I live 5 miles from the ocean and was without power for 10 days. I have a gen and all is ok on that end. Lessons learned. 1. Head lamp with push button was indispensable, for chores around the house when not using gen. I do not run it for long periods of time. 2. Several small lights to hang around neck of Wife Daughter and Mother. They called them their storm jewelry. Put them on at 4:30 and kept on person till morning. 3. And this is the big one, a network. I do alot of fishing for striped bass. (surf casting) along the costal NJ waters. A fishing buddy lives in So. Western NJ and was not affected nearly as much as I was. We were on the phone and he could lock in supplies that were in very high demand here and kept me posted of situation in the rest of the state. While there were long, long, long, .............. long lines for gas. I drove to the west side of the state, had a nice hot meal at a restaurant, filled my truck and lots of gas cans with no lines. This was not a "hope it works out" trip. My buddies intell was trusted and spot on. Net result, Wife and I got out of dodge for a spell, got some supplies at a slower pace, filled gas and was back home using only about 2 gal of a 30 gal tank in my truck.

Thanks chowhound for the positive results of networking for intel.Shows how important communications are,and points out how lacking many of us are.....good to have friends with the capability to transmit.

Hi Lono. Can I talk to you about your experience with the line crews for a Popular Mechanics story? It's a great reminder that being decent can go a long way in an emergency.

You can reach me at JohnGalvinMail@gmail.com

Regarding the recent Sandy storm, I wanted to share some ideas that worked well for us and may help others.
We lost power for 5 days and ended up doing all our cooking outside since our stove is electric. Last year my wife bought me for Christmas the Cabela's camp kitchen. We set it up outside under an easy-up canopy. I set up my 3 burner stove which runs off a BBQ grill propane bottle. (available at Sportsmans Guide). We used the outside stove for 5 days and did not deplete the propane bottle although it would be a good idea to have an extra bottle in case the power is out longer. This setup was simple and only required a little extra work than normal. This is a good time to have disposable plates, bowls and cups to cut down on cleanup since we were without water from our electric well pump. We filled our 7 gallon water jugs before the storm hit so we had enough water to keep us going. I keep extra water in milk jugs in the spare refrigerator which cuts down on how often the refrigerator cycles and means I always have potable water available when we loose power.

Regarding home defense during power outage. The threat to us came from an unexpected source. An individual near us raises Hybrid Wolves. When trees started falling during the storm, the fence retaining the wolves was breached and the wolves escaped. 3 dogs/pets were attacked and one owner walking his dog was attacked. Having a shotgun nearby while cooking outside provided peace of mind, especially with small children running around.

Lastly, regarding generator use. If you are like many people, when the power comes back on, the generator is put away and forgotten about until the next storm. If you leave gas in your generator while stored, it may not work properly next time due to built up deposits in the carb. This happened to a friend during the storm. His generator would only run on high idle even without a demand. When he switched to the economy mode it would die. He purchased a product called Mechanic in a Bottle and added it to his gas following the directions on the bottle. Within a couple hours his generator was running better and the economy mode started working again reducing the amount of gas he was using. Important when you have to wait on line for gas.

A little preparation goes a long way towards surviving a power outage. Hope this info is helpful.

Very helpful tips. Thanks for sharing. Welcome aboard!

JohnPatrick... a comment.. most recommend that you not use actual milk jugs to store water as there is a potential for contamination.. of course some bleach could be used if they were the only storage source...

for those without a generator to keep the refrigerator up... the 5 and 7 day coolers with multiple frozen gallon jugs of water work well...

Why would cleaned milk jugs be any more likely to contaminate any more than a cleaned jug of other vintage?

Milk jugs are designed to degrade when exposed to the elements though, so they are not real good for longer term storage.

ILBob, check the FEMA preparedness manual I linked to in this post from last month regarding why.

I suppose it is possible. I am more worried that the plastic will deteriorate over time as it is designed to do.

Use 2 liter pop bottles for the freezer. Contrary to what might make sense... fill them FULL, then freeze. (Yes, I know that water expands ~9% when it freezes) So far <knock on wood) I have not had any bottles split and none have even fazed the cap - frankly, most don't even noticeably bulge. These bottles are relatively heavy gauge PET and are designed for a modest bit of pressure from the carbonation. This is far superior to milk jugs and the water is potable when the bottle thaws.

We don't drink much pop, but friends save the bottles for us. I do a light rinse with tap water, leave the caps off, and then when I have enough to make it worth my while, I "process" a batch.

Sorta like washing dishes - wash, rinse, sanitize, air dry. Sink with hot water + Dawn, sink with clear water (refreshed as required), one bottle half full of water + plain bleach. As a bottle is washed and rinsed, the sanitizer bottle contents are transferred; shake it up to coat inside of bottle with sanitizer (clean cap kept on counter for that) and set it down. Now-empty sanitizer bottle slung out vigorously and leaned up to air dry. Wash next bottle, etc. I use a pretty hefty mix of bleach-to-water - no harm. Re-rinse with tap water if it bothers you, but... there's no need.

Last are caps and sometimes a dish scrub brush helps in the threads if you were not paying attention when you initially rinsed the bottles. Set out a small plastic container (e.g. margarine tub) and as the caps come out of the rinse water, drop them in. Wait one minute after the last cap is set in, then remove all and set aside to dry. Go slosh the "spent" sanitizer in/around your shower...

In theory the "pressurized" frozen water will have a lowered phase change temperature, but at the pressures we're talking - there's no change, despite internet myth. It still freezes at or around 32 deg F.

These don't freeze frothy - they're like lethal weapons when frozen <grin>. Think bowling pins.

Seriously, ditch milk jugs - nasty - use plastic PET pop bottles instead.

I get my canteens at the supermaket. They come prefilled with tasty fluids of various colors and a lot pseudo-scientific mumbo jumbo about electrolyte replacement. I drink the colored fluid as needed and refill with whatever potable water is handy ( I want all the electrolytes). They work quite well - cheap, light, and effective.

Ayers, it is good to hear from you again....

I never "left"... OK, maybe I got distracted for a bit. Grandkids started popping up... I'd say I'm too young for that, but sadly, not true... anyway, it's GREAT to see so many familiar folks still active here!

+1 on the beverages. I'm partial to those 24 oz bottles for tons of uses - inc. water bottles. Work great for breaking down big bags of rice, pinto beans, etc. as well.