I think the whole deal with revamping the Leatherman line is ridiculous. Gone are the days of yore when someone could recieve a brand new multi tool and be ecstatic. Now I think the Leatherman Company has abandoned their original mission for quick profits. I am always in favor of new advances, but this is unnecessary. In this world of change, there seemed to be one constant: a good Leatherman. In my opinion, the Juice and Squirt lent to the downfall of Leatherman Company. The new, flashy models that are being introduced as a replacement for the Wave are just eye candy. And those sheaths look like fecal matter. I think the yielders of the "older" or "classic" line of Leatherman tools are now comparable to the Last of the Mohicans. We are a dying race and I believe we should unify to boycott the new line of these over-commercialized playthings. I can already picture someone asking me to use my Leatherman Wave and then becoming disgusted when it is not the "Charge" in fashionable Titanium. Faithful "classic" Leatherman owners will not fade away into the night. We will stand tall and keep these new toys from taking over the block. Stop letting the people in suits make the decisions and let the real users decide! I'm really dissapointed with this new line, I can't believe Leatherman is doing this...

The Juice line was never the replacement for the wave, they are designed to get people who normally wouldn't carry anything bigger then a small SAK into the multi-tool world. I do like some of the juice line, they are a great alternative to SAKs, I have given a few of them as gifts to people who normally wouldn't carry a flashlight and have found them having a home in their pockets and purses. The new line that is replacing the classics is fine. The wave is pretty much the same, but with beef-ier jaws and locking tools, I don't see anything wrong there, the charges look fine to me, they have the size of the super tool 200 with the weight of the wave and have locking tools. Titanium is great, in this aplication it is better then steel. The Kick, Fuse, and Blast are the same as before, just with better handles and an easier hex adapter. If you really feel that bad you still have the crunch and Supertool 200, both great and will probibly stay the way they are for a while. From a guy who has every leatherman in the classic line except the mini-tool and PST II I think the new changes are good.

I kind of see Leathermans point. As knives and other tools become more and more "evil" to the rest of the world they have to find ways to exapnd their market. Making a few cute tools to hopefully sell to poeple and keep their company our of bankrupcy is a good thing as long as they don't abandon the poeple who want real tools. I personally will never buy a tool with a corkscrew because I could care less if someone can't get to their wine (I feel safer if they can't anyway, one less person driving on the road with me after they have had some wine and most social drinkers hold their wine less well that the full fledged alcoholic.)

Paul, you may wish to check on that hex adapter, itlooks to my from the specs to not be hex at all, rather the flattened hex the wave uses, that is my biggest complaint with the new design, I want standard hex.

Some of the new tools I like, If I could have my wave made of a lighter material but still as strong I would buy one, but I'm not willing to give up my finctional screwdrivers for the one in the new wave, the old wave has a functional screwdriver without carryuing the tool adapter then with the too,adapter I can have an unlimited type of screwdrivers. With the new wave I have to carry their special bits with me at all times.

I've been wanting to e-mail leatherman for a while with some new product suggestions. I want to see a recheting screwdriver added to the existing tool adapter. I have added a 1/4" hex to square adapter to mine before and user a hex socket with the adapter set at 90 degrees before when I regular screwdriver couldn't fit and I didn't have a real rachet (those little computer repair kits come with a screwdriver and bits and sockets). I also want to see a larger PST sized tool with wave handles, or even a crunch with wave handles, something big enough for the heavy duty jobs such as changing a fan belt or tightening a loose oil drain plug, something where the smaller size of the wave you just can't get enough leverage.

I'll stick to the Victorinox multitools- they redesigned those handles so now it seems to be THE all time winner,while keeping the looks and quality of a real tough tool

I will still keep my "classic" Swisstool, though. Hmmm , now that I think about it, I purchased it at the Zurich airport while in transit to the US.... 3 years ago. funny,eh?

Eugene

You make some good points. I've an old Super Tool with tool adapter. On site this has helped me out loads of times plus I carry an assortment of hex bits for security screws, triwing, snake eyes, Torx etc. I can't see Leatherman providing these anytime soon.

The one wish I have is that the tool adapter had a ratchet action. Maybe if enough mention this then eventually they may get the hint.

Eugene & Stokie--

Contact Leatherman directly with your comments & suggestions. They've been quite receptive when I've done so, and appreciative of the interest in their products. It seems they really do like to hear from their customers.

Nothing wrong with discussing it here, but if you want Leatherman to know, tell them!

I haven't had time even to look at pictures of the new lines, so I guess I've got some reading to do...

David

I've went so far as to buy a couple different screwdrivers from Sears or Lowes or Home Depot but haven't found anything that will work just right. Most racheting 1/4" hex bit screwdrivers just have too long of a shaft to work as a rachet when the tool adapter if turned to the 90degree angle. I'm thinking something like this http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.d...pid=00904116000 might work out well. Cut off the hanfle and weld it to the tool adapter and send leatherman a pic.

Eaglescout,

I would like to begin by saying that I don't chime in much around here. Mostly I defer to those more knowledgeable than I. Like many, I am here to learn. I reserve my posts for something that I feel I can offer a unique opinion on.

You brought up some interesting points. And while I agree that the new leathermans are a bit out of the norm from what I've come to expect form leatherman, their still a leatherman. What I've come to expect from leatherman: quality. I don't think that they make "fecal matter" at all. I have come to love this company and trust in their craftsmanship.

I agree with you that the Squirt and Juice models are out of thier norm, and I personally don't use either. (I should note that I do own a Juice) I may not EDC them, but they are nonetheless good products and do fit the need a large populus. Like the claws on a hammer, just becuse you're not using them doesn't mean they aren't handy.

In conclusion, I haven't actually laid my hands on these new models. (has anyone?) But from the reviews I've read it seems that Leatherman has raised the bar again. I look forward to even higher quality and ruggedness from Leatherman.

I should also note that my main EDC knife is a Benchmade Osborne 940 with the 154CM Steel. I can vouch for the edge retention and rugged durability from experience. I welcome this improvement from Leatherman.

--Luke

"Paul, you may wish to check on that hex adapter, itlooks to my from the specs to not be hex at all, rather the flattened hex the wave uses, that is my biggest complaint with the new design, I want standard hex."

As par Mr. Ritter:

"A bit holder that slips over the end of the Phillips screwdriver (al la Gerber) and which accepts both Leatherman’s unique flattened hex bits as well as standard 1/4-inch hex bits is an available accessory that fits all three models. The basic set includes the bit holder and five double-ended bits in a carrier ($20). The molded carrier even has storage slots for two standard bits"

So, the kick/blast/fuse models can use both the flat and regular hex in their phillips adapter.

Tool is a tool. How many freaking car wrenches do you need to buy? Unless you break it you very rarely need a new one. Now I’ve been told and it may be not true that a lot of home appliances like toasters, washing machines in 50s and 60s were build like tanks. I mean you had your toaster for 20 years or so and that thing still work like new. Companies realized that by making good product they may get recommendations but they will not get repeat customers since their stuff is not breaking. So they started using cheaper parts making equipment more prone to break in order to have people going out to buy replacements.

Now if by any chance above is true we may experience similar with Leatherman. I use wave since 99. And if it wasn’t for the fact that my original one was stolen in Africa I would have never bought a second one. I’m not planning to buy another tool unless I break this one. I think that Multi tool market is saturated with quality products. It’s time to start making things that are prone to defects so people go out and buy replacements, or more parts… Also a lot of people but muli tools because they are hip and look cool not because they are functional. Ex. My friend calls me up to borrow a saw. I say no problem I drop it off on the way to work. I bring it over and ask what sort of construction project he has. He said he needs to cut few sticks for his wife garden. I asked what’s wrong with his Leatherman. He didn’t even know that Leatherman that sits in his desk had a saw.

To support my theory a bit. I remember when Gerber tools pliers were secured in place using hex screws which made tools fully user serviceable. Now rivets are used for that purpose. If your tool breaks and you are in the hurry so you can’t send it to Gerber for repair I guess you have to go out and buy a new one.

Matt

I do agree with you on the point of revamping these tools with a new look and charging double the price. Seems mad to me. However I do like the juice line. Not the look, but the layout. They are espessially good for the UK where we are not allowed to carry blades over 3" and they cannot lock, in this respect the juice series are ideal. I also love the tools on the Kf4, perfect for me. However it got stolen so i've got a supertool 200 in the post (ssshhh <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />)

I actaully like the squirts, for their size they are decent tools. I wish you could swap aprts though, the file is much better on the EL, I'd like it to be on all three.

Oops, I stand corrected. I did not realize it was different. So why didn't they do the wave the same. I may have to look at the others now when they come out, may just be an upgrade over the wave because that new tool adapter does look a bit smaller.

I tend to do like the military and standardize and buy spares. I actually have a spare wave in my truck now because I loaned my wave and it almost got lost and I didn't want to be without it. I also have all three squirts and need a to replace a small pair of wise-grips that were stolen so a crunch is on on my want list now.
I don't like the rivited tools though, I think they could make quite a market selling user customizeable tools and a wide assortment of blades. People like me would have to buy each blade and won't be able to decide which to carry and end up buying three tool bodies to carry all the different blades in <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Nothing wrong with spares. My EMT belt has a Swiss tool rigged to it and key chain has a squirt tool. So I have 2 big solid tools and two small (squirt and swiss tech).

We were talking about this stuff with my friends yesterday. I'm usually the guy who brings "good" news about new equippment comming out. Obviously new line of Leathermans was quite a big news. Yet everyone was unimpressed. Most of the guys already own one productc or another from leatherman so what would we do with one one we have? If Leatherman maybe offered a trade in program where you can sell back them your Wave or SuperTool that yes I would be more than happy to be hip and current with a new line. Otherwise there are limitations to the amount of spares you can have.

Matt

I imagine their hope is you buy a new one and give the old one to someone else, somewhere I was reading about Leatherman and it seems to me they suffered from the HP problem. People outside the computer industry probably don't know what I'm talking about but basically HP's old 3 and 4 series laser printers were built so well that it cose them sales as no one wanted to replace a working printer with a new one. Hp had to get creative and add new features and justify by the reduced cost of new toner (If you use 1 toner cart per month for two years the cost difference in toner from the old to new model would pay for the printer by then). I see Leatherman having the same problem, the old Leatherman were soo good that no one ever needed to replace them or buy new ones and their sales started dropping. So you design new models with new features in hopes that people will want the new features enough to give away their old model. Myself I actually would have bought a new wave or charge as soonm as they were released and given away one of my old waves if they hadn't messed up the screwdrivers. I may still buy one, either for me or as a gift though. This year I started giving preparedness a little bit, gave 4 squirts as presents to my wife and the guys in the immediate family. Wife gave her micra to he mother who said she wanted one after that so there are 4 new Leatherman sales, although small ones. I'm going to ask the guys near this Christmas if they use them, the ones that do I thought about buying them a wave.

For whatever it's worth, I recently bought a juice XE6 to carry on a cruise ship, to have something inoffensive and clearly not a weapon (as it was, they confiscated it, then gave it back to me on board- it's a long complicated story that, in the end, makes no sense at all).

I have other Leatherman tools, including an early Wave that I've always been rather disappointed with. It has the "loose handles" problem, the main blades are uneven in tension, and the plain-edged blade is very hard to open one-handed... and it weighs a ton. I also have an old Leatherman first-generation PST that had the soft wirecutters (dented on first use), and the handle hinges are looser than the pliers, so it's impossible to open the pliers normally- very frustrating to use. I also have a Mini that's Ok, but very uncomfortable to use, and a few Micras that have those almost-unusable tweezers.

For my money, the Juice is better engineered and built than any of my others. Everything is tighter, feels much more precise, more positive action, better designed details, more comfortable to use. After carrying it for just a week, I like it better than any of my SAKs, some of which I've had for 30 years, and I can only wish my Wave were built nearly as well.

Hopefully the Charge series will be... but I won't be running out to buy one of the first ones released. I'll wait and see.

The Tamper-Proof TORX Plus on the wave is a letdown.

How're you going to repair it in the field if the wave is "wobbly". I can't buy the torx plus.

I like the Juice & Squirt lines. My EDC multi-tool is a Juice S2. I have the original Supertool, but decided pretty quickly that it was too big for me to EDC. Use it around the house. I got the Wave next and carried it EDC for a few years. Carried it in the sheath or in a pocket at first, but then moved it to my bag. Wasn't totally happy with that option; didn't have it ON me, but decided it was the best alternative. Then I moved to a job where I didn't want to carry something the size of the Wave (too conspicuous), but still wanted some basic tools on me. Got the SeberTech M4. I wasn't satisfied with it, but it was the best option I could find at the time. I carried it for a couple of years. The Juice line is just what I was looking for. The perfect size for me to EDC; not to big or too small. Good, solid construction and a nice selection of tools. And with the Squirt P4, I finally got my wife to carry a multi-tool. The new product line looks interesting. As to whether or not they should have discontinued the old one, I don't have an opinion at this time. I will say this about the new Wave, though. The wider blade is a blessing. I stopped using mine one-handed after slicing myself a few times. The wider blade takes care of that issue. Oh, and one other thing to remember. In this day and age, if a company dosen't regularly update their product line, they have a tendency to go out of business

Leo

I have been carrying a Juice as EDC for the past 1.5 years. It replaced my Wave as EDC because it is both handy at work, completely inoffensive, and much lighter. As a computer geek the smaller size is actually better for work than the Wave. I do miss the tool adapter but not often enough to carry it daily. I have both the CS4 and XE6 Juice. I have the leather and elastic sheath and could not be happier with this combo. The smaller one is my favorite EDC carry. My Wave rides in the vehicle now. I have not seen the new tools yet.

Welcome Birk, good to see you here.

Thank you Schwert. I was here before for awile a few years ago before OSF started eating up all my online reading time. Now that I have a lot of time on my hands, I thought I'd come back. Just couldn't remember what name I used to post under. Senility is setting in early for me. <img src="images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Leo