I would be interested in your opinion on this vest.
http://www.stayaliveinc.com/index.php

thanks

You have flashlight but no strobe. All this space that 3 flares are using could have been replaced by 6 or 8 pen flares with room to spare but I'm not sure how would that agree with Coast Guard laws. I think this vest is designed for the first few days/hours in the water. After that due to lack of water (drinking water <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ), food and FAK you will be history. That 45 feet of rope looks like a laundry line.

Also I love when they say: single size fit's all: UNIVERSAL. If you ever had to jump into the water in the vest that is one size too big you know how it feels. You need a snug fit vest so your movements are not restricted and vest is not ripped off you when you wall in. Also loose fitting vest has tendencies to snag on things. They claim four straps adjustment. My vest has 6 straps for perfect fit and I still had to choose general size that fits my body contour.

Since I don't see how the leg straps are positioned on this vest but if it looks anything like a parachute harness you are putting unnecessary pressure on femoral artery. Combine that with universal fit (too big or too small (my bet is too big)) and your body weight is pulling your down when straps are holding you up. Can you say circulation restriction and hypothermia? Same goes for your arms. If you are sliding out of the vest you will use your arm pits to hold in place. Again you are cutting off circulation but this time to your arms.

Seems a bit pricy. My kayaking vest which was about $60 has 3 large pockets. Even if I went out and bought top of the line supplies I would still be below their $200 asking price. But if you want to standardize equipment or don't find particular joy in putting things together than I guess it's the way to go. This vest reminds me of those cheap rip off survival knives. Seems like there is a lot of stuff but in reality there is not that much.

It seems that instructions (if those are instructions) to use equipment are printed on the part of the vest that is submerged. Nice. I also assume that they are printed from top to bottom so even if you manage to see the letters you will be trying to read upside down.

I would replace the flares and put in pen ones. I would add the strobe (water activated one). I would loose the cloth line and replace it with real rope and carabineer. Add a smoke signal and water marker. Set of energy pills and space blanket if you actually make it into the raft.

Matt

Having BTDT in an abandon ship situation, I have to side with Matt on this one – one size fits all means it won’t fit anyone well, and there are few things more painful or awkward in the water than a lifejacket that is either 1) Floating up around your ears, or 2) Cutting off all circulation below your hips.

From a practical standpoint, I have issues with the BULK of something like that, especially on a sailboat, where there are lots and lots and lots of things to get hung up on, snag, get tangled with, etc. All in all I think the concept is nice, but I question the real utility of toting all of that stuff around when you are on deck (no where does it say how much this thing weighs) and also the effectiveness of trying to meet all of the myriad of USCG requirements with one single item.

I've been in email contact with the owner. Please remember this is a first generation attempt by someone who is also making a living. Doug and my seperate efforts to market viable but cost effective PSKs was a real education. Hopefully we will be able to field test one. Feedback from the field is what prompts improvements. I've BTDT also, and from the end thats supposed to be professional <img src="images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />. Throwing on a vintage Kapok lifejacket, survival belt and knife while wolfing down a ham sandwich from an interuppted 3 P.M. breakfast you tried to start @ 6A.M. and flying out to the boats makes the concept very appealing <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I completely agree with you that the concept is a good one - and a good first attempt to solve the problem of not having what you need on you if you unexpectedly or have to hurriedly go over the side. I’m just concerned that the weight and bulk issue would discourage people from wearing this maxi-PFD, which would defeat the entire purpose.

This same item was addressed in Popular Science (or Mechanics) about 20 years ago. It was based on a foul weather coat and contained a plethora of survival equipment. To the best of my memory it had a single person raft, EPIRB, flares, smoke, signal mirror, etc as well as rations and (I think) a small hand powered desalinator or solar still. The vest had either built in floatation or an inflatable system.

On the subject though, what would you want on your person if you go over? Start of a (too inclusive) list below. What would be the bare min? Feel free to add or subtract.

Flares
Whistle
Mirror
Smoke
Dye
Water activated PLB or EPIRB
Strobe
Flashlight
Tether with carabiner
Drouge
Rescue knife

This is heavy on the signal end to support rescue. How to combat hypothermia, dehydration?

Doug's written a great article here. Scroll down to life vest. It was designed for wear in an aircraft, so it wouldn't be completely suitable but it might give you some ideas.

Well, first off, I wouldn't go over the side permanently because I would have my safety harness on. This is from my sailing days, so not sure how it applies to motorboats in this day and age. If you were on deck for any reason at night, you had to wear your PFD, to which were clipped a whistle and lifejacket light, in addition to your safety harness. I always had a good knife strapped to my person as well. You have to strike a balance between having nothing at all and being so overloaded that you can’t do your job and you become a menace to yourself and others. My gut instinct, without ever having worn this product, is that it is far into the “overloaded” category as something you would want to wear for hours on end.

While I agree that preventing going over the side is the best avenue, there will be times where it is unavoidable. Broken tethers, not clipped in, abandon ship situation. etc.. Sailors are better indoctrinated on the use of safety harnesses, powerboaters are less so. I happen to own a power boat at the present moment and have no clip in points if I have to go on the foredeck. But this could also apply to dinghy sailors, sea kayakers, divers on charter boats. It is possible to get sufficiently far from shore that return is not possible (offshore breeze, high surf, currents (rip or otherwise)).

In that light, alert and locate equipment seems to be the priority. Flares (pen or mini), strobe, mirror, and whistle all would take up a sufficiently small volume and weight. A rescue streamer may be of use. When venturing offshore, one of the new personal EPIRBs or PLBs may be a viable suppliment, especially if the boat is equipped with a Radio Direction Finder (~$1000 USD).

Again, you have to wear it (have it) for it to be usefull, and the commercial version seems too bulky to promote continuous wear. Doug's answer using the Switlik vest seems better, but again may be too much for some users. A class IV (inflatable) with belt pouch may be more attractive to many, even if it does not provide any thermal insulation.

Does anyone know if any studies on the use of the equivalent of space bags (blankets) has ever been done for in water hypothermia prevention through the reduction in convective heat loss?

thanks for the replies. I agree it is the first attempt at a good idea. What non-inflatable life jackets have decent pockets?

Kokatat Outfit. 2 big pockets and small pocket by the zipper area for a knife, or flare box. Fits pen flare container with 6 rockets. Perfect fit.

My partner has 4 pocket PFD but I need to ask him who makes it and what model it is.

Matt

The vest weighs 3.12 lbs. It's about the middle of the page.

This thread from Lightfighter Tactical has some really good info. Be warned, there is some language that wouldn't be acceptable here <img src="images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />. The Equipped pages are referenced and linked however
http://lightfighter.net/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=7336015661&f=2296024871&m=3606043503

Ed

Take a look at these:

http://www.lifesavingsystems.com/general/fm_lsc.htm

Look at these two vests:
#485-CG Life Preserver Survival Vest (LPSV)
#489 Pro Vest

Yes, I know of one highly unofficial test...
...because I myself conducted it in the unheated swimming pool of my best friend's apartment complex in Los Angeles. <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

This pool had so much shade that it got sun for, at most, half a dozen hours each day and stayed (at least to this Texas boy) very very cold at all times. My California friend rarely swam in it, because, for most of the year, it stayed too cold for her as well.

I was visiting her a couple of years back after having participated in Doug's liferaft testing. I had tried on an exposure suit for the first time during that testing and so had this kind of stuff on my mind. I had a couple of Space Bags in my Jeep and realized it would be a great time to test if they would work like the Land/Shark bag is supposed to. (It's a pity I didn't have one of those with me so I could compare them in the water.)

I ripped the first one by trying to unfold/deploy it in the pool. It still helped to keep me warm, but the rip was allowing way too much water to exchange, so I threw it out and tried again. These bags are quite fragile and can only be used when you can be calm and gentle enough to rest in them... no moving around or bumping into debris. You will have to have some flotation aid... treading water will rip them.

I unfolded the second bag on land and got inside it. Then, I refolded it as tightly as I could and put it in a ziplock bag. Deploying this one in the water proved much less difficult and I managed to do so without damaging it. I had no PFD on, and so, inevitably, my attempts to balance on floating pool toys for buoyancy eventually led to me stick a foot through the bag. I'm fairly certain that, had I been able to simply float with a vest, the bag would have lasted indefinitely.

Even with the small hole, I could tell a notable (translation: wonderful) increase in the temperature of the water in the bag with me as opposed to the water out in the pool. I was actually able to get comfortable and stop shivering. It's not very scientific, but that's just got to matter in delaying hypothermia. Getting out of the bag was a renewed shock ... I had become used to the temperature inside my bag o' water and the pool water was so much colder.

Stay safe,
J.T.

Interesting. I tried the "space blanket"(bag) thing some time ago, and sort of decided their real virtues were lack of weight and bulk, with anything else far behind. I found "sleeping" in the cold with them slightly more comfortable than dying. Maybe.

I find the Thermo-Lite stuff far more useable:

http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores...productId=99840

Still pretty cheap and small (stuff bag pictured is not to scale- check specs). Not perfect, but it's much more comfortable and vastly more durable.

I wonder how they'd do in the water? They are somewhat more permeable, which might be a slight negative, but they might be durable enough to actually work in real-world conditions.

Stuff Size: 3.75 in. x 6 in. ... I have a regular 30 degree mummy bag that packs down just slightly larger than that. I'm sure it weighs more though. I'm at work and it's at home so this info is "off the top of my head".

Are you a kayaker Matt? Hey, that makes two of us. <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Agree with your comments. The wider issue here seems to be the expected use and environment of your kit. I wear a PFD most weekends seakayaking, but I don't need much cold protection from the elements so I use one of these, in the summer anyhow:

https://secure.worldwebms.com/www.glascraft.com.au/showitem.php?itemCatid=25

Not quite the same animal as the PFD developed by the Florida guy, but with sensible additions, does the job for warm water seakayaking. Minimum bulk, maximum breathability. So comfortable and light you don't know its there. So you wear it. A more bulky backup PFD stays at home. I always carry a small knife [folder], personal EPIRB, and whistle on lanyards around my neck. I have added an ACR 360deg. white light as a permanent fixture to the inflatable PFD.
The downside of the inflatables are cost, and maintenance. Mine goes back to the manufacturer annually, as recommended, for factory check.
On trips I add yet more kit to my person: a rolled up 25ft floating strip for air rescue, small parachute flare, and smoke. Stuff that people tend to forget in survival situations: heavy suncream and lipcream are always in my PFD pocket. Again, a reflection [ excuse the pun ] of my extreme environment.
But this is still less bulky than the Florida rig, which I would say may be OK for certain inshore and inland power boating applications.
But if I was going offshore on there's no way I would rely on a PFD without a fully sorted out harness. All you have to do is look at the experiences of those who have survived being washed overboard through proper harnesses.

I agree. I keep an aluminized mylar blanket in a pocket of every jacket and coat I own. I don't use the "Space Blanket" brand, because they don't come folded flat, but in a bulkier fold, and, thus, don't fit in a pocket so well.



As long as I'm clothed, I find them not bad. Any exposed skin sticks to the material and adds to the noise and discomfort.



I absolutely agree. Quieter too.



Mine has velcro holding it together on part of some of the edges. It's broken strips; not continuous. That would let a lot more water exchange.


I realize now I should have done a comparison test with a trash bag borrowed from my friend. <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> D'oh! That would have given me an idea of how important the heat reflection is to warming the water, as opposed to merely trapping the water. I have my assumptions, but I'd rather have tests. <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Drat.


Stay safe,
J.T.

>>As long as I'm clothed, I find them not bad. Any exposed skin sticks to the material and adds to the noise and discomfort.<<

To each their own, I guess. I "slept" one night on the hood of a Ford, on a barrier island after an amazing storm, in the middle of a sea of knee-deep mud. That was worse, but...

I spent the better part of one night under a space blanket (haven't tried the bags) The thing made noise when I BREATHED, I was either too hot or too cold or parts of me were both, and humidity built up rapidly under any part that was covered, and it got sweaty, while any uncovered parts were freezing off, keeping me constantly moving. And it tore if you looked at it funny.

To be fair, I was having leg cramps at the time as well, which was unrelated (apparently salt depletion, I learned later), but I'd get these amazingly acute "charley horse" pains, and have to get up and dance around in the cold awhile to shake them off, by which time I was shivering uncontollably again. I think I slept a little that night, but I remember every minute of the dawning that morning, and I didn't come out of it with any affection for the space blanket at all.

Y'know, after your response, it occurred to me that I've never actually tried the Thermo-Lite bag, even briefly... just looked at it and put it away. Probably should have kept my mouth shut about it.

I have used the Thermo-Lite blanket, and it did much better. I took the blanket instead of the bag because I was traveling in an area where I thought rigging it as a sun shelter might become important, say, if the vehicle broke down... should be much cooler than inside it. It didn't come to that, of course, but it's something the blanket would do much better than the bag in the desert.