Very true. If I was still up in Royal Oak I'd meet up with you some weekend and check it out myself.

took it out or a 3 hr hike fully loaded except ammo and extra clothes. the shoulder straps dug into my collar bones even when I tightened them all the way and wrapped a bandanna around the hotspot.

A little after, it began to strain the neck muscles and between shoulder blades.

I had most of my gear minus tent, bag,pad,gun and ammo.
Tried it later empty and for an empty bag it still felt cumbersom.

Either gonna chop down my gear UGH, or get another bag

Greenghost,look up "hellcat" modification for the ALICE pack.It is a ALICE pack and frame with MOLLE straps and hip belt.It also replaces the metal buckles with Fastex ones.I have not tried this but have read of it on other forums.....

BOATMAN
John

One thing I found extremely helpful when I bought a new pack was having it fitted & adjusted by the sales girl at my local MEC. While she did do a great job at pointing me at a good bag for my needs at a good price, it was the fitting that I think makes the real difference.

They have bean bags or something that they use to load up the pack with weight and then go through all of the adjustments to ensure not only that you have a pack that is the right size for you (many come in different back lengths, for example), but that you leave the store with it set-up and ready to go. This includes finding the right shoulder point adjustments, etc.

If you do end up looking for a new pack, I'd highly recommend finding a store that has this level of service (I think REI does this in the States).

REI definitely does. Eastern Mountain Sports may also do this - I know they're not as widespread, but found similar selection and service to REI.

I don't believe places like Bass Pro or Cabela's will do this.

I have had an ALICE pack Large for about 20 some years , I suppose if your were in the military you got used to them , that said ,it doesnt bother me wearing it, however , I would think in todays market there are many better packs available , as someone said the ALICE was a tactical pack , but now adays there packs for every purpose , specialty packs . I would examine what your needs are before you buy , for instance is this a secondary Bug Out bag? It wouldnt be a very good first bugout because of its bulk. If its for hiking I would re asses your needs , ALICE packs generally are not a good choice for hiking , they break your back , I think the form fitting bags that even the weight to your hips is the way to go , you want the energy evenly distributed , I think a pack is narrow at the top and bulk at the bottom is better , I also prefer a belt at the waist , and on the straps as well to cinch while hiking , just my preferance.
Dont concern yourself with carry bulk ammo , unless your in the need it would be highly advisable to dig a hole and waterproof a container and we call this a cache , strategically located along the trail you intent to take (before hand) that way you can take limited amount of ammo ,the ammo will weigh a bag down in a hurry , have a good belt to carry canteens , not getting too off the OP but having a cache pre-planned is an excellent idea to lesson the pack load , these caches can have an assortment of things from food /water/ammo/tools/weapons/clothing/etc ,

My brother gave me a new Jansport big bear 82 that he snagged at good will for $7.99. It looks new with no signs of wear and I cant wait ti transfer my gear to it and mod it to suit my needs.

I found good reviews that mostly say its cool but sucks after 40 pounds of gear and lacks small external pockets. I figure ANYTHING has to be better that my ALICE, which I havent given up on either.

Pooly

I worked for a wilderness program w/ troubled teen for many many years (Wilderness EMT, Equipment Manager there as well), after Army and college. I humped various packs for years, mountain altitude to canoe portages, Canada, Mexico, and US. For BOB, I would consider external frame, well adjusted. They offer solid support and some degree of flexibility to configure and "odd" load if needed (strip off the nylon pack from the frame). You can also easily replace a ill fittiing or worn out part/strap if needed. Also, could retro fit a Mil Spec belt or other "system" type item to carry accessories within easy reach (think ammo pouch). Additional benefits are they can be found dirt cheap as you have found out. I have many around my place, one REALLY old Paul Petzolt (NOLS) pack from 1960's. Some externals are plastic framed, others aluminum. I found the plactic to flex just a little that was a POSITIVE attribute. Weight distrobustion within the external pack is even MORE critical than with an internal frame as it is further away from your body to start. Put weight high and close to your body, lighter stuff low and away. Worth mentioning is also the fact that in a BOB situation it might be difficult to keep the pack out of the weather, and I dont know that ANYONE has ever designed one, but a "Bill's Bag" (envision an Army duffle but bigger in rubber) rubber sealable pack like a portage pack (although they lack a frame or support of any type)would be the cats meow. You will likely not have control over exposure to weather conditions. You can get soaked, but you ABSOLUTELY need to keep your gear dry. It is nearly impossible without something like this:


http://www.scouttech.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=1634


Another advantage is the clean lines and lack of "stuff" sticking out that will catch on things, whether the environ is wilderness OR urban. Also, on an external frame pack, repairing ripped or broken strap is pretty simple. On a sewn internal, NEARLY impossible in the field (my teens could break ANYTHING and did)


Good luck, Ironwood

Ive fine tuned my jansport to suit my needs well. As for ALICE, I now use it as a day pack and still am able to carry a light load in it with no problems.