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#251269 - 09/29/12 05:32 PM Equipped yes, but also...
TeacherRO Offline
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Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
Having gear is important, but so is knowledge, (physical) training, mental toughness, & advanced planning/ good information. Balance.

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#251272 - 09/29/12 06:35 PM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: TeacherRO]
bacpacjac Offline
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Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3601
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Agreed. You can have all the gear you want but if you don't know how to use it and don't have common sense to go along with that knowledge, you're going to be pooched if TSHTF.
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#251282 - 09/29/12 10:40 PM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: TeacherRO]
gonewiththewind Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1517
Know more, carry less, but be prepared with the kit, it is more comfortable. Always practice, and try to learn new ways to overcome problems. Practice many ways to do everything, like purify water, build shelter, start fires, etc. When it happens, you may not have everything you want to have, regardless of how prepared you are or how well equipped your vehicle or house is. You may have to improvise with what you can find. Use every opportunity to learn a new technique or practice old ones. Teaching is a great way to enhance your own skills (if you have someone who will sit through it).

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#251284 - 09/30/12 01:59 AM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: TeacherRO]
barbarian Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/18/12
Posts: 70
Loc: USA
I hear wisdom and experience in the words written in this thread.

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#251285 - 09/30/12 01:47 PM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: TeacherRO]
JBMat Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 745
Loc: NC
Knowing what you can do without, and what you can do with what you have is a big plus. Improvisation and not having "one trick ponies" can cut your weight/items/space needed.

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#251291 - 09/30/12 10:55 PM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: JBMat]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
This thread reminds me of the opposite state of affairs in a SAR operation conducted some years ago in Arizona. We were called out for an overdue hiker on Mt. Lemmon. It was a dark and stormy night, with heavy mist dampening everything down.

We took the trail on which our victim was thought to be and in due course came upon the gentleman, sitting immobile and slipping into the early stages of hypothermia...next to a very large and bulky pack, weighing around fifty pounds.

"Howdy! What would you say to us starting a fire?" said we. We, too, were a little cool and would appreciate some heat.

"Can't be done - the woods are too wet" replied our guy.

It so happens that we have a couple of techniques that guarantee a fire in just about every situation short of a roaring blizzard - #1: light a can of jellied alcohol and pile the tinder around it; #2 do the same thing around a lit carbide lantern. Suffice it to say that we soon had a cheery campfire and were roasting marshmallows, etc, getting ready to march back up the trail about three miles to civilization..

The trip was enlivened by our victim's attempt to shoot our a yard light along the trail as we approached the road. He did have a pistol in his pack and at least he did some concept of what it could do. Nothing else in his pack was evidently of any particular use.

It turned out he was attempting to locate a "bamboo bomber" that allegedly had crashed on Mt. Lemmon, carrying a cargo of gold, of course, during World War II. Pure, absolute fantasy.....

If you don't know how to use it, just leave it at home and save your aching back....
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Geezer in Chief

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#251378 - 10/02/12 09:24 PM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: TeacherRO]
M_a_x Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 1207
Loc: Germany
They say "A fool with a tool is still a fool.".
Gear without the skills to use it may be just dead weight. In some cases the gear may even injure you severely (one false move with an axe may cost you a limb).
I would rate skills, knowledge, information and good physical shape as more important than gear. After all information and planning could well avoid the emergency. Skills and knowledge weigh nothing and can be taken everywhere.
If you can acquire a new skill, do it. If you can acquire a new piece of gear, think twice whether you really need it (unless it´s a new toy ;)).
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If it isn´t broken, it doesn´t have enough features yet.

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#251452 - 10/05/12 06:48 PM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: TeacherRO]
TeacherRO Offline
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Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
Fitness is a tough one...takes a time commitment

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#251453 - 10/05/12 06:49 PM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: TeacherRO]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
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Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3842
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: TeacherRO
Fitness is a tough one...takes a time commitment


Yes, but it pays back tremendously, even if you don't have to outrun your friend to keep from getting et.

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#251468 - 10/06/12 02:13 AM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: TeacherRO]
Vogeler Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/25/12
Posts: 36
I admit I'm a gear junkie. But yeah, none of that stuff is worth a hoot if you don't know how to use it, and you're not physically fit enough.

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#251473 - 10/06/12 10:45 AM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: chaosmagnet]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Not just a time commitment, but adjustments in lifestyle, which are sometimes easy and simple, but not always.
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#251475 - 10/06/12 11:31 AM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: hikermor]
spuds Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/24/12
Posts: 822
Loc: SoCal Mtns
Originally Posted By: hikermor
Not just a time commitment, but adjustments in lifestyle, which are sometimes easy and simple, but not always.
Yup,right down to the fuel you burn for long term survival.

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#251483 - 10/06/12 04:38 PM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: TeacherRO]
Chisel Offline
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Registered: 12/05/05
Posts: 1563
... and wits too. You need to be able to think fast and out of the box. I know that 'cause I have had some 'situations' where I sort of shot myself in the foot and made things worse than they were

Sometimes I panic a little in bad situations. In such cases I may need something in particular (like a knife or magnifying lens) , and forget that I have it somewhere.. It happened a few times. I hope it doesn't happen again when I am in a real survival situation.

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#251486 - 10/06/12 07:02 PM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: Chisel]
AKSAR Offline
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Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: Chisel
... and wits too. You need to be able to think fast and out of the box. I know that 'cause I have had some 'situations' where I sort of shot myself in the foot and made things worse than they were

Sometimes I panic a little in bad situations. In such cases I may need something in particular (like a knife or magnifying lens) , and forget that I have it somewhere.. It happened a few times. I hope it doesn't happen again when I am in a real survival situation.

Once in a WFR recert, they gave us a good quote for those kind of situations: "Don't just do something....stand there!" What they meant is that even in tight situations, it usually pays to take a second to get your wits about you.

I've also heard that in medical school they tell young newbe doctors to "First take your own pulse!" Again, what they mean is to first calm down, then deal with the situation.

There are a few situations that might require instant action. In first aid that might be blood squirting from and artery, or someone who has stopped breathing. Certainly there are a few other cases where one needs to react instantly, like a weapon jam during a firefight. However, in 90% of survival situations, you will be better off taking a coulple of seconds to calm down, assess the situation, and think clearly.
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"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz

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#251505 - 10/07/12 04:33 PM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: Chisel]
spuds Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/24/12
Posts: 822
Loc: SoCal Mtns
Originally Posted By: Chisel
... and wits too. You need to be able to think fast and out of the box.
Yup! Couldnt agree more with that statement.

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#251590 - 10/09/12 05:20 PM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: TeacherRO]
TeacherRO Offline
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Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
...Much of it is pre-planning. How will I get home after a storm? Where do we go if the power is out?

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#251596 - 10/09/12 06:59 PM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: TeacherRO]
Denis Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 631
Loc: Calgary, AB
I tend to think that physical, mental and spiritual strength are some of the most important aspects of survival, or really any difficult challenge we are apt to face in life.

I've been looking for something to keep myself motivated with my physical fitness and stumbled upon the Spartan Race. They have an e-book available that I've started reading and it made me realize that while we often stress the physical aspects of training, we have a tenancy to overlook mental aspects (or at least I did).

While I wasn't too surprised when I read a section about the importance for mental toughness, or grit, I found it very interesting that their training template to prepare for a race included mental exercises (e.g., mental math, memorization, etc); not just the physical training I would have expected.

I'm now convicted and am going to try and ensure I am exercising mentally, not just physically, as a part of my regular routine.
_________________________
Victory awaits him who has everything in order — luck, people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck. Roald Amundsen

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#251613 - 10/10/12 04:26 AM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: Denis]
AKSAR Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: Denis
I'm now convicted ......
Bummer. Maybe you can get released on parole, or get time off for good behaviour? smile

Sorry, I couldn't resist. smile
_________________________
"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz

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#252178 - 10/24/12 03:08 AM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: TeacherRO]
TeacherRO Offline
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Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
Pre-planning is something to work on too -- What might happen, how might I react. Having thought through scenarios helps reduce stress and mistakes.

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#252196 - 10/24/12 05:26 PM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: AKSAR]
NorthCarolina Offline
Stranger

Registered: 10/23/12
Posts: 5
Originally Posted By: AKSAR
There are a few situations that might require instant action. In first aid that might be blood squirting from and artery, or someone who has stopped breathing. Certainly there are a few other cases where one needs to react instantly, like a weapon jam during a firefight. However, in 90% of survival situations, you will be better off taking a coulple of seconds to calm down, assess the situation, and think clearly.


Those are situations where training and rehearsal play a big part. Other situations, such as equipment preparedness - including training in its use - require considerable pre-planning with time to re-think blind alleys. Still other situations, such as avoiding numerically superior pursuers, call for solid thinking on your feet.

My wife tends to over-think matters -- seeing great danger where the actual hazard is relatively small and the odds of it happening at all are slim. I tend to take a more fatalistic view that I have prepared as well as I am able and will deal with matters as they arise. Short of death, no defeat is absolute. And if death is the outcome, my worries - such as they are - are over.

Good forum - good thread. I like this place.

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#252201 - 10/24/12 06:13 PM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: AKSAR]
Lono Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
Originally Posted By: AKSAR
Originally Posted By: Chisel

Once in a WFR recert, they gave us a good quote for those kind of situations: "Don't just do something....stand there!" What they meant is that even in tight situations, it usually pays to take a second to get your wits about you.

I've also heard that in medical school they tell young newbe doctors to "First take your own pulse!" Again, what they mean is to first calm down, then deal with the situation.

There are a few situations that might require instant action. In first aid that might be blood squirting from and artery, or someone who has stopped breathing. Certainly there are a few other cases where one needs to react instantly, like a weapon jam during a firefight. However, in 90% of survival situations, you will be better off taking a coulple of seconds to calm down, assess the situation, and think clearly.


I think this is a modern response to the 'fight or flight reflex' we humans have been dealing with for millions of years - frightening situations have triggered a flight response for most of that time, we tend to hang around only when we assess that we can or must fight our way out of the situation. That fight or flight mechanism tends to keep us alive and propogating the species to live and fight another day. Everything from med school to wilderness first aid to combat training is intended to condition the person to stay and address the situation rather than run away. It runs counter to what our brains were originally programmed for, for the most part.

The big takeaway from combat training is you stay to fight for your buddy next to you, and maybe also you're dead already so deal with it (fight). The takeaway from most medical training is someone has to stay and stop that arterial bleed, so you better take a breath and do it (fight). Running away from trauma won't help anybody, and while it won't get you killed flight will damage your career as a doctor / nurse / EMT. You can recover, but most often you'll seek another profession if you run away from arterial bleeds as a medical professional...

Everytime I've stopped to give emergency first aid I think about this, and a little niggling signal from my amygdalla seems to say, run, run away fast, but them my training takes over and you stay and deal with it. You won't die but someone might. But that little amydgalla still reacts to the frightening scenario the same every time, its just that we can voluntarily over ride it almost every time with training and preparedness. Stop and take a breath, or your pulse, or just stand there, or more formally assessing the scene for safety is the gap that you need between the flight impulse and for training to take over and the impulse to stay and fight. That I think makes us human somehow.

(mentally though the last time I performed CPR 2 years ago I had a vivid image in my head of Homer Simpson, saying "Stupid Brain" to himself. Initially part of me wanted nothing to do with this frightening scenario. Its weird what we use for the interrupts and gaps to get things done).


Edited by Lono (10/24/12 06:19 PM)

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#252202 - 10/24/12 06:53 PM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: AKSAR]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2208
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
Originally Posted By: AKSAR
[quote=Chisel]"Don't just do something....stand there!" What they meant is that even in tight situations, it usually pays to take a second to get your wits about you.

"First take your own pulse!"


I like both of those. I've also heard, It's not your emergency, but that doesn't really apply to this thread.

Like I tell some of my folks - "it's either going to get better or worse." Sometimes things just need to develop, and you need to know when to sit and wait, and when to act. Preferably NOT after the time to act has passed!

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#252203 - 10/24/12 07:07 PM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: TeacherRO]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Originally Posted By: TeacherRO
Fitness is a tough one...takes a time commitment
Yep, in some cases years. For those who don't work out, there is always some excuse.
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Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#252204 - 10/24/12 07:08 PM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: Lono]
AKSAR Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: Lono
I think this is a modern response to the 'fight or flight reflex' we humans have been dealing with for millions of years - frightening situations have triggered a flight response for most of that time, we tend to hang around only when we assess that we can or must fight our way out of the situation. That fight or flight mechanism tends to keep us alive and propogating the species to live and fight another day. Everything from med school to wilderness first aid to combat training is intended to condition the person to stay and address the situation rather than run away. It runs counter to what our brains were originally programmed for, for the most part.
......
I suppose "fight or flight" is part of it. The main point I was trying to make is that all too often people feel that they must react instantly. However, in most cases taking a bit of time to assess the whole situation leads to a better outcome. A very few situations really do require instant action, but most do not.

Using another analogy from first aid, one should try to avoid "Puddle Thinking". That's when you find someone with an obvious wound with a puddle of blood around it. You instantly jump in and do an awesome job of applying direct pressure on the wound. Sure enough, in a short time the bleeding completely stops smile ..........But only then do you look up and notice that the guy (or gal) isn't breathing.......... frown

In most cases, taking a brief moment to evaluate the whole situation is time well spent. You will have a much better set of priorities, you will think more clearly, and your overall response will be much better.
_________________________
"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz

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#252616 - 11/01/12 04:31 PM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: TeacherRO]
TeacherRO Offline
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Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
Two big things: fitness and reference.
get your cardio up and have the useful books/ apps/ links that you might need

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#254686 - 12/16/12 05:39 PM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: TeacherRO]
TeacherRO Offline
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Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
Also, charge your gear before a storm.

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#254832 - 12/22/12 11:11 AM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: TeacherRO]
Finn Offline
Member

Registered: 08/04/11
Posts: 173
Loc: Colonial Heights, VA
Training + Planning + Gear

Fitness came to me because I no longer had a car and I moved off a bus route. What I had started with recreational hiking, work & chores grew into physical fitness. Further, being poor forced me to make better food choices. Regarding mental toughness, being knocked mighty low by divorce (etc.) I came back through the efforts of friends, the writings of Marcus Aurelius and self-discipline.

As an Army medic, the training was a factor in helping me get over the "Oh shoot (cleaned up)!" response. I specifically recall a guy that had a minor head wound with lots of blood. I took a moment and re-focused on the need to help this guy. Now I respond quickly & calmly whenever I encounter a medical aid situation.

There is a reason that the military & businesses plan things. Having an idea of what you need to do in an emergency is more effective than just going with the flow all the time.

I have too much stuff in my evac ruck. 'Nuff said.
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People don't like to be meddled with.
~River Tam

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#260114 - 04/30/13 06:30 PM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: TeacherRO]
TeacherRO Offline
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Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
Working on the fitness end of things recently...steady as she goes...

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#260125 - 04/30/13 08:09 PM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: TeacherRO]
bacpacjac Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3601
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: TeacherRO
Working on the fitness end of things recently...steady as she goes...


Here too, Teacher. Trying to get my body back into backpacking form as it adjusts to being in mom of a newborn form. About 10 pounds and a bunch of strengthening to go!
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#260129 - 04/30/13 08:47 PM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: TeacherRO]
ILBob Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 776
Loc: Northern IL
are you planning to cart the little one around with you while backpacking?

it seems like maybe the back woods is not the best place to bring an infant.
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Warning - I am not an expert on anything having to do with this forum, but that won't stop me from saying what I think. smile

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#260130 - 04/30/13 09:01 PM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: TeacherRO]
bacpacjac Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3601
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Not to worry, ILBob. I agree. I'm a firm believer in starting them young, but not too young and not all at once. One step at a time.

I'm not going very far off road with her. If she can't get there in her jogging stroller, she's not going. Lugging her and her stuff, the risk of cold injury, not to mention sun and bug protection, are all limiting factors.

Thankfully, our kids have an awesome dad, so my son and I are starting to get back out there one-on-one and with our Scout group.
_________________________
Mom & Adventurer

You can find me on YouTube here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT9fpZEy5XSWkYy7sgz-mSA

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#260164 - 05/01/13 03:05 PM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: bacpacjac]
spuds Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/24/12
Posts: 822
Loc: SoCal Mtns
Originally Posted By: bacpacjac

I'm not going very far off road with her. If she can't get there in her jogging stroller, she's not going.
Love seeing Mom and baby out with those things,makes the world seem right somehow.

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