Not directed to you at all, Fred. I appreciate that the OP wasn't hijacked, and I think that this thread has generated an interesting discussion too, but I think there's probably a more tactful way to have this discussion than with an opening scenario that's clearly inviting a dog pile on the OP.

I apologize if I offended you, Fred, or anyone else. That wasn't my intention. As I said, I think the discussion in this thread is interesting. It just seems like the reason behind the thread was a personal dig and that bugs me. ETS is nothing if we don't respect each other-

Hope you'll stick around, Fred. You just had the misfortune of walking into the middle of an (extremely rare) domestic punch-up. Believe it or not, we're pretty darn civil around here (excepting this thread) and take considerable personal pride in that fact.

Cheers,
-Doug

Edit: +1 on what bacpacjac said: "ETS is nothing if we don't respect each other."

I second Doug's sentiments. Nothing wrong with sparking discussion...

Ya know,it really boils down to this.

Is it practical from our current viewpoint? No.

Is it possible from a historical study? YUP!

People have been buku prepared and died from a toothache.Others have been trapped by a rockslide,cut off their foot with a pocket knife and lived. Who is to say how it will play out?

So yeah,anything is possible and this is hardly an absolute failure of a plan,just not one I'd care to undertake.But I wouldnt bet it couldnt be done,many many many have done far tougher treks.And without a bunch of preps either.

Point was made when your life is on the line its AMAZING what can be done.

I agree, such a feat is not impossible; but the question is: is this a course of action that one should plan for?

Regardless of whether we are talking about primary or back-up plans, an important aspect of preparedness, in my mind, is evaluating risks and understanding what scenarios make the most sense to prepare for.

One of the things I really I like about ETS is that it puts realistic bounds on preparedness and survival. We typically don't look at unrealistic or improbable events (i.e., this is not a survivalist site). We don't plan for apocalypses, alien invasions or the fall of civilization. This isn't a forum to figure out how to live in a Mad Max wasteland.

But, even within the described purpose of the Natural Disasters & Large-Scale Emergencies sub-forum, I simply cannot think of any reasonable scenario where a family in the US or Canada would have to undertake a 400 mile evacuation by foot.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I simply cannot understand how planning for this either makes sense or fits with the confines of ETS.

The current economy, and the probability of it worsening, makes me think that 400 mile journeys are a plausible scenario for more and more people. Travelling to look for work, to relocate, or to "go home" are all things that happened during the great depression, and I don't think they're beyond the realm of possibility for a lot of people today. People who might not have the money to afford transportation or lodgings during such a trip.

I don't think this is the streotypical survivalist fantasy we try to avoid here on ets. I think it's a growing reality that more people are facing. Ask anyone you know who's living pay check and worrying about losing a job but has family in "X" or a line ln a job in "Y".

400 mile journeys - absolutely; I bet it's happening already. 400 mile journeys by foot - I'm doubtful.

Even still, the thing is we aren't simply talking about if such a journey could become necessary for some people; we are talking about if it makes sense to plan and prepare for one. I seriously cannot think of a single scenario where a 400 mile foot journey would be the only, or even a good, course of action.

I have no problem simply discussing what such a journey would take or historically how people have done this; in fact such a thread would probably be very enlightening. What I have a hard time with is a discussion where someone is seriously considering this as a back-up plan ... especially without first giving really good thought - and an explanation - of why this option is even being considered and what risk it is a viable mitigation strategy for.


In most, if not all, of these types of situations I would bet bus fare to the location 400 miles away is more affordable than the cost of preparations needed to cover the same ground by foot (bus fare in my case would be $140 for one adult & a child). If preparing for this type of eventuality, putting cash aside is a much more wise course of action compared to buying a bike trailer, lightweight tent, water treatment system, stocking up on dehydrated food, etc.

Think about it this way, if someone came to the forum and said: Things are slowing down economically in my area, I don't have a car, and I'm afraid that in a few months I might be out of a job and would have to travel 400 miles to my home town and live with my family for a while. How should I prepare for this?

Does anyone think a reasonable suggestion would be to prepare for a foot journey? Of course not. We should be looking for the best way to prepare for bad things, the way that gives us the greatest chance of success with the least amount of personal risk.

Could I walk 400 miles to my bug out location?

Probably. If I was with wife only, not toting the two cats, minimal loads and I was prepared to move at night, hide during the day, beg/borrow/steal what I needed - basically what I did back in the day in what was then SERE school.

Is it feasible? Not unless I absolutely had to. As in, the zombies have overrun my town and/or the baddies have announced plans to nuke my area.

The best scenario is I determine it is time to beat feet well before the event happens. I load the SUV with stuff and leave off to the safe point. If nothing happens, oh well, good training for when it does. If the fecal matter hits the rotary air impeller, good for me for not being in the general area.

This past Labor Day weekend, I did a 4 day outing that averaged 18-20 mile days over easy to intermediate terrain along some well established trails, firebreaks, old Forest Service access roads etc with elevation gains/loses of around 1000 feet each. Even though I am in very good walking/hiking condition, there is no way I would want to attempt this for 400 miles while carrying my 40-45 lb pack every day even on a good road surface such as concrete, asphalt or an all weather gravel road. As it was,I suffered from a very rare occurrence of blisters on my right foot that could of been an ugly debilitation if this was a forced 400 mile foot march.

Also the OP did not mention of water that needs to be carried. On a couple of days of high 80's temperatures, I was drinking upwards of 2 liters per hour and could of used more if I had it to spare as this time of year, the area I was in, many creeks and streams that just a month ago were overflowing their banks with mountain snow runoff, have all but dried up. I had to keep water consumption in check as these usual water sources were no longer available. Conversely in other areas, especially in some US states, severe drought conditions would make water supply that much harder for one person, let alone multiple people in your group.

Like others have similarly commented, the likelihood of anyone having been forced to do this to get to Grandpa's farm in a bug out situation is not realistic in terms of logistics, physical exertion etc in the terms of the OP's scenario.

People just do not really realize how far 400 miles is. Go to Google Maps and do some mileage calculations. For example, Denver Colorado to Albuquerque, NM is just shy of 400 miles. Columbus Ohio to Nashville Tennessee is about 400 miles. Once you get a sense of scale and area that needs to be traversed, are you really sure you still want to undertake this bug out Grandpa's farm?

I often find similar M.U.S.H-y thinking in regards to pack weight and miles traveled.

40# is a heavy pack. Its very heavy for an out-of-shape city dweller.

Most people - hikers - travel 2-5 mph on foot.