I know many of you already know this, If so this post is not for you but for someone who may not have used one of these.

I usually take a folding saw, but I recently picked up a few of these BCB wire saws and wanted to see first hand how useful one might be tucked into a pocket somewhere. No point taking it along if it's no good after all.

I was on the mountain bike trail yesterday and figured it as good as any place to give it a test. Here is what I learned from using one of these saws:

1. By itself, this saw was terrible. Every pull would make it bind and pinch no matter how it was angled. Even using the weight of the branch to take the weight off the cut it would bind. I ended up pulling the ring completely off of the saw by pulling the metal ring apart.(never did cut the branch) Right about here the saw was about to be thrown ino the woods as far as I could physically throw it, with the remainder to be thrown in the trash later that night after pointing and cursing at them some more. (don't worry Nursemike, no comic book conventions to express my profanity this time)

My multi-tool quickly repaired the saw. I pressed the ring so it overlapped this time.

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This was the recommended way to use the saw.(Pulling back and forth on the rings) However, somewhere I recall reading about using a bow to enhance it's cutting ability. Bow attempt # 1

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This was way too weak to hold the wire tight. Almost as bad as using it with no bow at all. Attempt # 2 was much better, using a stronger branch.

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What a difference. It cut through the first branch with ease, and several others up to 3-4 inches in dia. Nice clean cuts. (green wood)

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(dead wood)

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To make the test fair, I used my normal EDC knife to baton through a length of the same pieces of wood to see what was A. easier B. faster and C. safer

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The saw was faster, easier, and safer (depending on the user I suppose) than the knife. but only with the bow attached.

If you do decide on adding one of these saws to a kit, may I add a few points that may or may not help in your decision.

1. Do not remove the rings to save space as many books will say (unless you have another means of attaching the wire to make a bow)

2. Don't even bother with the saw by itself, make a bow. It's 100 times more effective. It also makes a 2 hand task become a 1 hand task. The other hand can now hold the branch being cut so it doesn't smash you in the face.

3. Wear gloves. That wire gets really dammed hot

4. I have read that the saw can also be used as a snare. If so, I fail to see how. It's far too gritty to run smoothly against itself. I am obviously missing something with the whole snare thing.

5. They will rust if not taken care of.(this brand anyway)

6. They saw is very abrasive, and may puncture small holes in lightweight items packed tightly against it. (condoms, zip lock bags etc)

7. If you don't EDC a multi-tool, you may want to pinch the rings together with pliars before putting the saw away.


It probably won't replace my Gerber exchange-a-blade folding saw anytime soon. But if space or weight is really limited you most certainly can make use of this tiny wire saw.

Hope this info was of use to someone.

This was an interesting post and it contains a lot of useful information and good pics. Thank you for posting it.

What brand of wire saw was this? My personal favorite,although much more bulky, is a 21" Sven Saw - cuts like a dream.....

Thank you byrd, I figure since I am out taking pictures anyway, I may as well post some here.

I know, I know....I should get a life but I love this stuff. Like a weird hobby.



Hikermor - I lied, I posted BCB for some reason (I got other stuff from them) But these are the Pro force commando brand. My bad...

I agree, nothing compares to a full sized saw. Besides my folding gerber I have a break down bow saw (gerber as well) that cuts like a chain saw. I can drop a 6 inch tree in 20 seconds flat with it. Break down as it may be it's still too large for most of my needs. I never tried a sven, but most people speak highly of them.

Nice post and pics. I've pretty much given up on those saws, and even the heavier "chain saw" type. I agree... you can make them work with proper technique and a bow. But I have just stuck to whatever size wood I can saw with the saw on my multitool or SAK, which are EDC for me in the woods. In my pack and in my camp I use a Fiskars sliding saw, which I love (particularly the belt clip).

http://www2.fiskars.com/Products/Yard-an...-Pruning-Saw-10

I use a Sven saw to informally clear trail in spring hikes with Scouts.

There are some improvements on the wire saw to consider besides bending it into a bow: a couple years back someone made a compact saw using sturdy chain saw chain and well constructed loop handles on either end - I bought one of those and it does indeed cut really well through tolerable sizes somewhere between lopper size and 6-10 inch logs. It folds down into something the size of a multitool or two, so its pretty compact and doesn't have any of the disadvantages of heat or flimsy construction. And I know we've used it a few times, usually setting a couple scouts to saw off a downed tree, and the actual cutting is a little slower and more awkward than the Sven - but the chain saw chain model hasn't broken and it definitely works. So they got that part right, but basically this is in competition with my trust Sven saw which has been lightly trimming trails for 3 decades now (I think I might have kuyped it from my Dad actually, who cleared trails and Left Lots of Trace way back to the 40s), so it doesn't really get used much. And if I ever used it a lot, I'd have to consider sharpening, which may be a little tougher on detached chain saw chain than I'm used to on my Stihl.

I don't remember where I got the chain saw chain model but I think it was local to WA somewhere, interested folks could look for earlier posts on this forum as I'm pretty sure we discussed it.

I use a "chain saw" tool quite a bit. I don't remember the brand and the container is long gone. However there is quite a bit of variation between the brands. Look at several and choose carefully. I would have to look at them together to see the differences (can't remember) but there are obvious differences.

Most of the old time woods guys I know carry a couple or three standard bow saw blades fastened to their pack. They make what they call a "H" frame when needed. That is the type of frame with two vertical bars and a center horizontal bar like a capital H. The blade fastens to the lower end of the vertical and a rope goes between the top ends of the vertical. The rope is a loop and a stick goes in the loop. Twisting it makes the rope shorter and puts tension on the blade. The stick is long enough so that it can be hooked against the center bar to keep it from unwinding.

I have seen a guy make one in about 5 minutes. When done he has a fully functional full size saw and can do some serious cutting. Well worth the 5 minutes to make.

Nomad

Thank you Stephen for the great info.
I'll definitely try your technique.

NAro - thanks, the blade on that looks almost identical to the exchange-a-blade I usually carry. One thing I realy like about it is that you can swap the wood blade for a finer toothed blade which works well on bone or other hard stuff.

Lono - The sabercut saw maybe? I see them from time to time. One of the models cuts in both directions unlike a homemade type which will only cut in one direction. I think it's the saber. I have never used it to be honest.

Nomad - I would love to see a picture of that if you had one. Sounds like something I watched Ray Mears construct on some show or another(I think it was Ray Mears anyway) Looked like a good idea.

Quietly learning - Thank you. I have to add however, this is not MY technique. I did not come up with the idea for this. I don't recall where I read it, but I was simply testing out each method.

Thanks Stephen. I gave up on wire saws years ago, for all the reasons already listed. I do like their size and weight though, and your post is a great reminder of their potential. I may have another go with one now. Thanks!

That was the only point I was trying to make BPJ, The saws have some potential if they are used correctly.

I wouldn't suggest anyone carry just this type of saw. There really isn't any reason I could think of not to have something more substantial with you.

every video or other account I have seen of these type of saws suggests either making it into a bow saw as you did or suspending it between two trees and sawing horizontally by moving the branch back and forth.

it does not seem like holding on to the rings and trying to use these things directly is an effective way of sawing at all.

I have the same wire saw and have used it to cut live trees up to 6 inches in diameter. The first lesson I learned is not to wrap the saw around the tree, you need to hold it as straight as possible, much like you found with the "bow saw" you constructed. You still need to relieve some of the pressure on the wire if possible by trying to expand the cut more, if possible. The teeth are on all sides and it does bind. Wrapping the wire saw around whatever you are cutting does cause it to bind up too much to be able to cut anything. With persistence and patience it will cut larger diameter wood than a small, pocket, folding saw. It is not as useful as a good camping folding saw, but it will fit in the pocket or a survival kit.

Air travel is one exception. I have put wire saws in my carry-on kit and have never had them flagged by security.

People have to realize that items such as this are a compromise.It was used by military pilots whose space and weight for gear are limited.It was meant to help build a shelter(cutting a ridge pole)with a parachute.Trap making was an other intended use.A wire saw is not meant to be a long term use tool but a light weight aid til help arrives.i would rather have it than nothing at all.....

BOATMAN
John

Nice post, thanks for sharing, I've been considering a wire saw to include in my smaller kits, but I've usually heard such negative things about them in the past that I've not followed through. Add to that my own experiences with the wire saws they used to include in the cheap, rambo knockoff hollow handle knives years ago (so cheap that when they got just a little hot they would break in half). Plus, the only one I was considering was the BCB and those are hard to come by in the US, but the pro force is much more accessible.



This might help. There are two main makers of the chain saw type collapsible saws you mentioned. One is the saber cut by Ultimate Survival Technologies:

http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Survival-Technologies-SaberCut-Black/dp/B001H9N8C0

The other is the original (I think) pocket chain saw:

http://www.pocketchainsaw.com/

There may be others out there, but I am pretty sure these are the two that Doug Ritter discusses here:

http://www.equipped.org/saws.htm

Usual disclaimers apply.

I tried making one with a spare chain saw chain, It did not work:

1. All the teeth bite into the wood and the pulling load is too much for anyone to pull.

2. It would only cut in one direction.

I think this is why the UST only has one tooth in five and they also act in opposite directions alternately. If I owned a tool to break and make the chain it could have been adapted.

Far cheaper to buy the UST which works brilliantly.

Great info Stephen, thank you for putting it together. You are quite right about how the "teeth" can poke holes in nearby gear of the PSK. I made a little thin leather sheath/pouch for mine just for that issue. There are different versions of these saws on the market which includes junky ones.

You can replace the metal rings with short loops of 550 cord. This cuts down on bulk for a micro kit and still enables the bow technique.

IMO these saws are best suited to micro kits where your primary cutting tool is something tiny like the Ritter RSK-MK5, where cutting a ridgepole and such would still be a challenge with such a small knife. If I had a honkin' ESEE-5 then blasting through a 1" or 2" limb is not an issue.

Thank you for sharing and great images! I gave up on wire saw idea in favor of a chainsaw a while ago (Got the Gerber Gator and scavenged the chain blade parts for the kit). However I prefer my long hatchet for any solo wood work anyway. The only problem with it - it's not as quiet as a saw and obviously heavier.

Yeah.

That's why I did some battoning to give me an idea of what was better.(that I would likely be carrying on me) With a full sized knife the advantage would go to the knife but my usual woods knife is a Fallkniven WM-1. The blade might be 3 inches long, so is not an easy knife to baton with. The saw was a lot faster.

Now If I had my F1 I bet I could have smacked that tree down in no time at all. That knife only goes out when I hunt large game however.

Nice strait cuts look nice but offer no real advantage in any situation I am likely to find myself in.

For making fire wood I suppose breaking it by hand/foot is easier than the knife and saw combined realistically, especially with good sturdy gloves.

Still, it's so small I believe it may be worth having one in certain places.

My favorite woods tool is my wetterlings axe. I usually never need it enough to justify carrying it with me until winter when all the fire bans are lifted.

Then I would be happy if that was the only cutting tool I had.

There are times when a saw if just the tool you want. That is why I routinely carry a Wave. There have been times it was just the ticket - cuts fast and straight with no binding....

IMHO, any saw is pure evil, because almost every solo-use saw will drastically limit your survival capabilities by simply limiting the size of wood you might just consider using in your mind.

For example, it's weird for me to see survival experiments videos on YouTube, when after dunking in the ice cold water people (under the wise guidance of survival instructor) are making fire out of just 3-4 inch "logs" maximum (some were feeding their miniature "survival" fire by kindling only!), and that's for fighting the really deadly hypothermia overnight... That's so silly! I'm used to creating at least a three-log fire in such a situation with 12 inch logs minimum! Find just 1 dead tree and chop it down to pieces. Same apply for the shelter building, animal snares making, water distilling, etc.

You need more wood - find and cut a large tree. I understand, - firewood gathering prohibition, fire bans, etc... but keep that in mind when you need to survive for real.

Well, I dunno. I have had to make fires on several occasions when it was really critical, and I have always gone with small stuff - usually something I could break by hand, by stomping, or by dropping a large rock. Worked every time. In my youth, I routinely cooked over open fires, employing the same techniques. The best use for a saw in my experience has been to clear out a helispot.

Even then on one memorable operation, as I was dutifully setting about to fell a nice healthy pinon (8" diam.) my companions persuaded me to try and just push it over. Moral of the story: A motivated rescuer is better than any tool.

Of course, it is true what is said about sawing - it warms you twice - once when you are cutting, and again when you burn it.

The Standard issue NATO UK Super Army Soldier (SAS) survival saw NSN 5110-25-147-4344 works pretty well for cutting up firewood.

Can't fit one inside pocket kit. :p

Has anyone tried the American issue one? Looks like a real thick solid wire with welded on sharp teeth, never seen it for sale, at least places that will sell to me.

Sounds like the ones from the Boy Scouts back in the late 70's/early 80's. One of the current online stores only lists the Coghlans version.

Or using the fire itself to do the work. Is the log too big to chop or saw? Set it in the middle of the fire and let it burn in half. Insert the 2 halves again into the fire. Its not very often that a person's only option is a huge log that can't be cut in the first place -- the smaller tinder and branches usually burn best anyway.

I've seen Mors Kochanski use a simple Mora knife to take down a wrist sized tree in less than a minute almost negating the requirement for a small saw at all. That said, I purchased a Gerber folding saw because I am not as skilled as he is.

From what I've seen, a small saw, whether it be Leatherman, SAK, or even a simple wire saw, makes it possible to take down surprisingly large trees. They give you the ability to create a fault plane and then apply main force to finish the job. IME, the strength of a tree is mostly of the outer third of its diameter. A small saw (or a small and sharp knife, wielded with skill) punches far beyond its weight.

In terms of sustaining a reliable fire, I suggest that regional differences apply. There is no simple rule. In my part of the world, putting three 12-in. logs over a bed of coals would almost certainly fizzle in a most inconvenient way. We (obviously) have to adjust our techniques to the materials at hand.

No it's a lot stouter than coghlan's version.



I've also seen people use what appears to be carbide impregnated scroll saw blade, I'd imagine those hold up to heat a lot better.

I think the company that makes them is called Bestways , I posted about them on a similar thread a while back.

The old version was too. The Bestways are closer than Coghlans but these were even more aggressive. It was a single solid wire with individual teeth around the blade, not spiral wound like the Bestway blades.

edit: spelling